Author Topic: my mom asked me a question last night  (Read 2231 times)

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NinjaWizards777

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my mom asked me a question last night
« on: March 31, 2009, 01:26:14 AM »
that i wasnt really sure how to answer. (she always gets christian universalism and unitatians confused so i have to constantly rexplain what i believe). She said something like
"If this is really true[universalism] why arent more pastors aware of it and teaching it at large. Surely they must have heard of it and can read the greek meanings too?"

Jerm

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Re: my mom asked me a question last night
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2009, 03:43:11 AM »
I've heard this one before as well and there actually a couple of answers to it:

1.  I don't know exact numbers but from what I've read there actually quite a few pastors who do teach it and many who simply hold the view privately but do not teach on it.

2.  As far as Greek is concerned, people are generally a product of what we are taught.  In most Seminaries and Bible Colleges, it is taught that aionios means eternal everytime because that's what the professors were taught.  And the professors teach it that way because that's how they were taught and so on and so forth.  A perfect example of this is my own school.  There are two professors there that teach Greek.  One of them teaches that it means eternal while the other teaches age lasting (or more simply "lasting a really a long time")  All of this aside, once you dig deeper, you can see that aionios does in fact mean age lasting because there are places in Scripture and other places where it used for things that have ended.

3.  The biggest reason:  Many people simply don't want to abandon the traditions they have been taught no matter how much evidence is presented that contradicts those traditions

IceDash

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Re: my mom asked me a question last night
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2009, 03:56:54 AM »
That a easy question:

1) Pastor do not want to doubt God's word because of fear

2) we are living right now, 2000 year later, the word" Hey!" will become a bad word and the word "crap" (forgive my language) will be become meaning of someone have a hard time (no longer a bad word)

look at Gay for example: it never mean homosexual stuff, but now yes, but in the past, it mean happy!!

So that's why

NinjaWizards777

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Re: my mom asked me a question last night
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2009, 06:51:36 AM »
makes sense to me

IceDash

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Re: my mom asked me a question last night
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2009, 07:10:07 AM »
lol even my word "crap" was changed......see what I mean :laughing7:

Jerm

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Re: my mom asked me a question last night
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2009, 03:38:20 PM »
did you know that originally boy could refer to either a young male or female?

Offline Doc

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Re: my mom asked me a question last night
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2009, 01:14:30 AM »
I've heard this one before as well and there actually a couple of answers to it:

1.  I don't know exact numbers but from what I've read there actually quite a few pastors who do teach it and many who simply hold the view privately but do not teach on it.

2.  As far as Greek is concerned, people are generally a product of what we are taught.  In most Seminaries and Bible Colleges, it is taught that aionios means eternal everytime because that's what the professors were taught.  And the professors teach it that way because that's how they were taught and so on and so forth.  A perfect example of this is my own school.  There are two professors there that teach Greek.  One of them teaches that it means eternal while the other teaches age lasting (or more simply "lasting a really a long time")  All of this aside, once you dig deeper, you can see that aionios does in fact mean age lasting because there are places in Scripture and other places where it used for things that have ended.

3.  The biggest reason:  Many people simply don't want to abandon the traditions they have been taught no matter how much evidence is presented that contradicts those traditions

Absolutely right.
 
Plus, in my experience, the people who really know the truth are generally in the minority, often a significant minority. Just because most people believe something, it doesn't mean they're right. In fact, I've come to the conclusion that the more widely held a belief is, the less likely it is to be true. (This is a generalization of course).
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

Jerm

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Re: my mom asked me a question last night
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2009, 02:29:57 AM »
I've heard this one before as well and there actually a couple of answers to it:

1.  I don't know exact numbers but from what I've read there actually quite a few pastors who do teach it and many who simply hold the view privately but do not teach on it.

2.  As far as Greek is concerned, people are generally a product of what we are taught.  In most Seminaries and Bible Colleges, it is taught that aionios means eternal everytime because that's what the professors were taught.  And the professors teach it that way because that's how they were taught and so on and so forth.  A perfect example of this is my own school.  There are two professors there that teach Greek.  One of them teaches that it means eternal while the other teaches age lasting (or more simply "lasting a really a long time")  All of this aside, once you dig deeper, you can see that aionios does in fact mean age lasting because there are places in Scripture and other places where it used for things that have ended.

3.  The biggest reason:  Many people simply don't want to abandon the traditions they have been taught no matter how much evidence is presented that contradicts those traditions

Absolutely right.
 
Plus, in my experience, the people who really know the truth are generally in the minority, often a significant minority. Just because most people believe something, it doesn't mean they're right. In fact, I've come to the conclusion that the more widely held a belief is, the less likely it is to be true. (This is a generalization of course).

Good point Doc  :thumbsup:

Offline Cardinal

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Re: my mom asked me a question last night
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2009, 02:41:27 AM »
Just because most people believe something, it doesn't mean they're right. In fact, I've come to the conclusion that the more widely held a belief is, the less likely it is to be true. (This is a generalization of course).

 :cloud9: I've come to the same conclusion. It's just about gone beyond a conclusion, and become a red flag, in fact.  :laughing7: Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Doc

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Re: my mom asked me a question last night
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2009, 03:59:18 AM »
Just because most people believe something, it doesn't mean they're right. In fact, I've come to the conclusion that the more widely held a belief is, the less likely it is to be true. (This is a generalization of course).

 :cloud9: I've come to the same conclusion. It's just about gone beyond a conclusion, and become a red flag, in fact.  :laughing7: Blessings....

 :laughing7:

God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

jadestorm

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Re: my mom asked me a question last night
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2009, 12:23:53 PM »
Liked your point, Doc

Keep pointing  :thumbsup: :icon_flower:

aspiring son

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Re: my mom asked me a question last night
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2009, 10:05:35 PM »
I've heard this one before as well and there actually a couple of answers to it:

1.  I don't know exact numbers but from what I've read there actually quite a few pastors who do teach it and many who simply hold the view privately but do not teach on it.

2.  As far as Greek is concerned, people are generally a product of what we are taught.  In most Seminaries and Bible Colleges, it is taught that aionios means eternal everytime because that's what the professors were taught.  And the professors teach it that way because that's how they were taught and so on and so forth.  A perfect example of this is my own school.  There are two professors there that teach Greek.  One of them teaches that it means eternal while the other teaches age lasting (or more simply "lasting a really a long time")  All of this aside, once you dig deeper, you can see that aionios does in fact mean age lasting because there are places in Scripture and other places where it used for things that have ended.

3.  The biggest reason:  Many people simply don't want to abandon the traditions they have been taught no matter how much evidence is presented that contradicts those traditions

Absolutely right.
 
Plus, in my experience, the people who really know the truth are generally in the minority, often a significant minority. Just because most people believe something, it doesn't mean they're right. In fact, I've come to the conclusion that the more widely held a belief is, the less likely it is to be true. (This is a generalization of course).

agreed   

Offline reFORMer

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Re: my mom asked me a question last night
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2009, 07:02:39 AM »
It's been mentioned elsewhere here that on CARM it is lamented as the sad state of the Church in the USA that the figures of a poll indicate 50% of the people calling themselves Christian and 70% of Christian Ministers do not believe in "hell."  I'm not sure what that means as far as the truth is concerned.

Who of all that are called "Christian" have the gift of the Spirit, and of them, how many have actually studied the topic in any depth?  As far as an elite group of paid professionals with titles of honor from other men..well, put like that most should recognize there are significant problems for anyone expecting truth from that source.  We really should be a bit slow to accept anything a professional preacher says, specially if they're sectarian, wanting us to not hear anything from another source.  I could compliment some, particularly of bygone days, who were in the Scripturally unwarranted position of gentile authority over the people of God, who nonetheless walked in integrity and earnestly sought the Lord and were wondrously used of God.  I just cringe at the Scripture that says, "...are you not aware that he who joins a prostitute is one body?" (1 Cor 6:16, CLV)  Some, who I honor, have great manifestations of the Spirit in power who are almost the only performer in the meetings of the body of Christ gathered around them.  For special occasions it is understandable; but, to be exclusively that way is just wrong.  I lean on some today who know the original languages and study the history of interpretion of Scripture that God seems to have blessed to write commentaries.

Anyway, God's purpose is to make each of us uniquely an expression of Him.  We can go only so far unless we change.  Early in my walk I repeatedly told myself something that Finney said, "Adjust to increasing light as rapidly as possible."
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 08:21:20 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Cardinal

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Re: my mom asked me a question last night
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2009, 07:28:10 AM »
 :cloud9: I like that Finney comment! I remember reading of how God used the humble, illiterate plumber Smith Wigglesworth, whose minister wife read to him the Word of God. How inspiring are the things that God does, when God does them. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline reFORMer

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Re: my mom asked me a question last night
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2009, 08:25:26 AM »
I've seen some become increasingly preoccupied with other's faults and failures until they left off following Jesus themselves.

Remember David wouldn't raise his hand against Saul, even though he was seeking to kill him.  David recognized him as God's anointed.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Cardinal

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Re: my mom asked me a question last night
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2009, 11:06:19 AM »
 :cloud9: If you're referring to my post above??? I wasn't pointing to Smith's "faults", I was praising a God that uses a man that couldn't read His Word, to preach His Word so mightily and magnificently display His gifts. I think that's awesome, and sounds just like God to me. Blessings...
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline reFORMer

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Re: my mom asked me a question last night
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2009, 10:44:48 PM »
:cloud9: If you're referring to my post above??? I wasn't pointing to Smith's "faults", I was praising a God that uses a man that couldn't read His Word, to preach His Word so mightily and magnificently display His gifts. I think that's awesome, and sounds just like God to me. Blessings...
I was actually posting to myself.  I feel I am either too "against" other believers whose ideas and ways are unlike mine or I contribute too much to people who might become defilers with a spirit of bitterness.  I too often feel like what was said of the Christian style of an English author/journalist who came to faith late in life:  "Now his cup of wormwood truly overfloweth!"

I was thinking of the preachers that try to cook up a "hell lite" doctrine, for instance.  They often know the Lord somewhat.  It seems best to not be too critical of people in Institutional Christianity, though that doesn't go for the doctrines and practices inherent to the institutions themselves...or relationships with such institutions.  I'm sorry I didn't make the connection to what you said, Cardinal, or I would have tried to more clearly indicate someway that isn't what was meant

I'm just trying not to be advancing what we often call a "critical spirit."  I probably tend that way too easily.  I say things that a rebel might use to his own destruction.  I don't think I despise autority.  I tend to advocated abandoning the daughters of Babylon rather than their overthrow.  I just plea for Christ to be the sole head to the Church.  "Radical" is good for those totaly devoted to the love of God and their fellow man.  "Radical" is probably not so good for those merely offended who use negative analyisis of religious institutions as a smoke screen.  A savior sees "Jesus the Revolutionary" differently than a destroyer would.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2009, 03:44:04 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!