Author Topic: Mat 24:13 - One of the bible verses that is said to disprove Unversalism  (Read 3859 times)

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Offline B_T

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Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Does this mean that:

But he that shall not endure unto the end, the same shall not be saved?



« Last Edit: July 17, 2008, 11:32:30 AM by B_T »

Offline Andy

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Maybe it has to do with which gate we enter in. 

The ones who endure to the end in this flesh existance, enter in through the narrow gate.

The ones who don't, enter in through the broad way that leads to distruction.

Just some thoughts,

Peace,
Andy

martincisneros

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One of the biggest problems with interpreting the Scriptures that evangelicals have is that they've created their own Bible in their own theological image rather than simply letting the Bible speak for itself.  In context, Matthew 24:13 is talking about being saved from the false prophets that would arise a couple of verses earlier.  Contextually, it's about surviving sorrow, deception, lawlessness, and you might be able to take Matthew 24:13 as far as to say that it's about surviving all that was about to befall Jerusalem in the next few verses.  Nothing about being sent to Hell for being "weak" is being stated or implied by Matthew 24:13.

Offline studier

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Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Does this mean that:

But he that shall not endure unto the end, the same shall not be saved?

They will not be saved, they will go through aionios Kolasis and experience correction for following seductive spirits and false teachers, and their own thoughts. Those who did endure, trust the Holy Spirit, listen to the Good Teacher, and renew their mind to the will of God and will be saved from aionios Kolasis. Not all the time in Scripture where it says, 'saved' or 'salvation' or etc, is it talking about the end result; it is still talking about the journey of life we go through, we all reap what we sow.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 01:52:13 AM by SOtW »

Offline Taffy

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Amen Craig.

I have a tendancy to see who the "End "is which explains this to me likewise.

Christ being the Beginning and the END..THE " END " of our FAITH, the salvation of our souls.

Rom 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;

Christ is the "END" OF OUR PROMISE.

Rom 4:16 Therefore [it is] of faith, that [it might be] by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Again it depends how we perceive this verse

Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Hbr 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
 
Being saved is often likened  to being MADE WHOLE, therefore complete in HIM...

Mat 9:21 For 1063 she said 3004 within 1722 herself 1438, If 1437 I may 680 0 but 3440 touch 680 his 846 garment 2440, I shall be whole 4982 .
Mat 9:22 But 1161 Jesus 2424 turned him about 1994 , and 2532 when he saw 1492 her 846, he said 2036 , Daughter 2364, be of good comfort 2293 ; thy 4675 faith 4102 hath made 4982 0 thee 4571 whole 4982 . And 2532 the woman 1135 was made whole 4982 from 575 that 1565 hour .

could for mine be summed up simply with this

Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 
Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law [be] heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
 :icon_flower:

Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Michele

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I agree Taffy....great scriptures....and I believe that no matter how one interprets "End" to mean here......I think the essence of the scripture tells us to not give up in times of suffering and desolation.  It is always Christ who overcomes, and makes it to the end.....we will fall short and have no more strength left in us.....but His strength never ends! :HeartThrob:

Offline Andy

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Great thread, good words, everyone!

Hi brother Taffy, it's sure a blessing to see you posting again!

Peace,

Andy

Offline Taffy

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Amen SG :icon_flower:

Yo Andy, Tis a pleasure to se you in these parts as well as over at ALL IN ALL Bro :icon_flower:

Blessings
Taffy
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

meerkat

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I think that it depends on what was the context of being saved

Salvation of all, or the Jews being saved from wrath @ 70AD, or Gentiles/unbelievers saved from wrath


I have been learning a bit about the preterist view on the Olivet discourse.

I believe that Jesus in the Olivet discourse was talking about the soon to come destruction of the temple in 70AD. Those who endured to that end and read the signs correctly were saved from the wrath of God against the Jews. The christian were given the chance to escape when the Romans for some unknown reason (God)  withdrew then came back and sacked the city.

But also Jesus died and was resurrected so that we can be saved from sin and death. All sin, all die, all go to Hades. Jesus was manifested so that there was more to the story .........

Christ the firstfruits
Those that are his at his coming
Then the end where he puts down all enemies under is his feet (meaning obedient to him



It seems that things can be taken out of context ..... because being saved is used in the context of the judgement of the Jews and also the same word is used for being saved from sin and death, meaning deliverance from Hades, it is assumed that those 2 situations can be merged into each other.

Offline jabcat

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One of the biggest problems with interpreting the Scriptures that evangelicals have is that they've created their own Bible in their own theological image rather than simply letting the Bible speak for itself.  In context, Matthew 24:13 is talking about being saved from the false prophets that would arise a couple of verses earlier.  Contextually, it's about surviving sorrow, deception, lawlessness, and you might be able to take Matthew 24:13 as far as to say that it's about surviving all that was about to befall Jerusalem in the next few verses.  Nothing about being sent to Hell for being "weak" is being stated or implied by Matthew 24:13.

This is an "old topic", but I saw someone looking at it today, checked it out myself, and thought it was good, especially liking this reply.   :goodpost:  There are other good ones, including Meerkat's above, IMO.

preistsplace

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Yeah you can take it either way, that those in that time who endured to the end would be saved from the Romans, or that they would be saved from punishment,or that they would be saved from despair hoplessness and lawlessness because their hope would have been bigger than any of the calamities that could befall mankind. Our hope is also bigger than the problems and sorrows and tribulations we face. Glory to God

Offline jabcat

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Re: Mat 24:13 - One of the bible verses that is said to disprove Unversalism
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2012, 05:41:15 AM »
 :bottlebump: 

Offline Molly

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Re: Mat 24:13 - One of the bible verses that is said to disprove Unversalism
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2012, 06:00:35 AM »
Quote
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Jesus has just finished recounting all the difficult things that will happen during the great tribulation, and I see this as him saying, but hang in there, guys, be strong,  help is on the way!

Offline jabcat

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Re: Mat 24:13 - One of the bible verses that is said to disprove Unversalism
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2012, 06:11:27 AM »
Quote
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Jesus has just finished recounting all the difficult things that will happen during the great tribulation, and I see this as him saying, but hang in there, guys, be strong,  help is on the way!

 I like that.  :thumbsup:

our God is a refuge, a very present help in times of trouble.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Mat 24:13 - One of the bible verses that is said to disprove Unversalism
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2012, 06:35:39 AM »
Quote
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Jesus has just finished recounting all the difficult things that will happen during the great tribulation, and I see this as him saying, but hang in there, guys, be strong,  help is on the way!

Excellent! Enlightening! :o)
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com