Apologetics - Universal Reconciliation > Arguments Against Universal Salvation

Ireneaus's Creed:

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studier:
Ireneaus is not known as a Christian Universalist. In fact is quotes like these from his book "Against the Heresies", which most do not believe Ireneaus could have ever hoped in redemption even for the wicked.

Ireneus is known for his sermons on the condition of the wicked, that their punishment shall not be temperal but eternal.

God will send the spiritual forces of wickedness, and the angels who transgressed and became apostates, and the impious, unjust, lawless, and blasphemous among men into everlasting fire" (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).

"The penalty increases for those who do not believe the Word of God and despise his coming. . . . It is not merely temporal, but eternal. To whomsoever the Lord shall say, 'Depart from me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire,' they will be damned forever" (ibid., 4:28:2).

Though as we have had huge debates concerning the Lake of Fire in Tentmaker Forums and else where, we begin to understand that the above quotes do not nessesarily have the context those of ET doctrine hold.

In fact, there are many of Ireneaus's writings which seem to favor the view of salvation of all mankind ithout ever truly confirming it. Or did he?

Ireneaus's Creed:
The "Rule of Faith" by Irenaeus in "St. Irenaeus of Lyons: Against the Heresies Book 1"

. . . this faith: in one God, the Father Almighty, who made the heaven and the earth and the seas and all the things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who was made flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who made known through the prophets the plan of salvation, and the coming, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the bodily ascension into heaven of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and his future appearing from heaven in the glory of the Father to sum up all things and to raise anew all flesh of the whole human race . (Against Heresies 1.10.1 [A.D. 189]).) http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/history/creeds.bible.txt

Huh? To raise all flesh of the anew all flesh of the whole human race? That is pretty qualifying. So how long is forever damned to Ireneaus? It is forever until Jesus returns to sum up all things and raise anew all flesh of the whole human race!

Interesting eh?

More fun stuff from Ireneaus.

Irenaeus

"Of his own accord and by his own power he made all things and arranged and perfected them; and his will is the substance of all things. He alone, then, is found to be God; he alone is omnipotent, who made all things; he alone is Father, who founded and formed all things, visible and invisible, sensible and insensate, heavenly and earthly, by the Word of his power. And he has fitted and arranged all things by his wisdom; and while he comprehends all, he can be comprehended by none. He is himself the designer, himself the builder, himself the inventor, himself the maker, himself the Lord of all" (ibid., 2:30:9).

Peacetroll:

--- Quote ---Father to sum up all things and to raise anew all flesh of the whole human race . (Against Heresies 1.10.1 [A.D. 189]).)
--- End quote ---


I too believe Jesus will return and raise all flesh.  This is the Millinium.  When Jesus comes with his saints to rule the nations with an iron rod.

Revelation 12:
 4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

 5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Jude 1
 14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

 15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Isaiah 14:9
Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

Revelation 11:18
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Micah 4:3
And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Revelation 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

(the dead will come back during the reign of Christ on earth)

 Then the truth will be told concerning him, for all to understand, yet those who are wicked will be wicked still and those who do not love Christ will wait for their evil councilour.

So to sum, Christ will have all fleshed to be raised during the Millinium so that all can clearly and openly see and hear the truth (for many have come and gone and not had the opportunity to hear the truth concerning Christ).

It is a mystery this Millinium.  It is no small act of faith to believe Jesus will return and subdue all nations to his will and raise all those who are dead to be once again during this time, to choose whom they will serve, the Light or the Darkness.

It is a great puzzle and worthy of continuous research and debate.  I'm willing and eager to hear others viewpoints in concern with the time of Christ on earth (his second return).

See the possible analogy between Joseph and Christ in the verse below (with respect to Christ making himself known to all during his second coiming)?

Acts 7:
 12But when Jacob heard that there was corn in Egypt, he sent out our fathers first.

 13And at the second time Joseph was made known to his brethren; and Joseph's kindred was made known unto Pharaoh

Peace in Christ.



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