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Author Topic: If Torment is Forever.....  (Read 5729 times)

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Offline WhiteWings

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2012, 09:16:39 AM »
If torture is forever...

His counsel will be crumble under the power of humanity.
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Offline WhiteWings

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2012, 09:25:03 AM »
If torture is forever...


We should be scared of the future. (Mat 6:25-34)


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John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2012, 09:31:56 AM »
If torture is forever...

God doesn't do as He commands (bless who curses you) (Luke 26:28)
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1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2012, 09:34:24 AM »
If torture is forever...

Hell will be in heaven. (Lam 3:31-32)
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1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2012, 09:37:00 AM »
If torture is forever...

God doesn't guide steps.  (psalm 37:23)
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1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2012, 09:38:12 AM »
If torture is forever...

Won't retrieve man from destuction (Psalm 90:3)
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1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2012, 09:39:56 AM »
Nuff said.... :-)
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1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sheila

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2012, 06:18:28 PM »
 there is no peace for the wicked.   opposite of peace is torment...but Praise beto God who justifies the wicked....

    How does God justify the wicked?  It is by His will that there are vessels of dishonour/wrath and vessels of mercy/grace..for this

    exercize good/evil education of His children..  it is written....but that is what SOME OF YOU WERE.....

      and who can contend with His work of His hands? When He states...I will put a new spirit in you...and give you a new heart...

     and Christ's words...and I will gather out of my Kingdom all things that 'cause" sin..and all things that offend

    wherte does that leave any man..who has in fact borne the corruptible image in Adam...to raise his voice against the judgements of God.

   that all men shall be clothed in grace  of God and bear the image of the incorruptible3 one.


   Now..it is the last day...His judgements are made manifest..that the prince of this world is evil....

   it is 2000 yrs later..and that day ..as decreed in the Word..is to get brighter and brighter...

   the stone of stumbling..the cheif cornerstone was laid......it shattered the image of the King of Babylon..men as kings ruling in the matter

  and sitting on God's throne of judgement as to who is 'worthy" of grace.

   that 'STONE" not cut out by human hands is grace that grows into  the Mountain of the  Lord and fills the entire earth...it is God's Glory...

   the salvation of ALL mankind.   It is the work of HIS HANDS...and it is our righteousness..."I must do the works of My Father who sent me"

    'I will not let you go entirely unpunished...but will discipline you with justice"   Thus sin in the flesh is condemned in all men....

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Offline redhotmagma

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2012, 06:31:33 PM »
Quote from: sheila on August 29, 2012, 06:18:28 PM
there is no peace for the wicked.   opposite of peace is torment...but Praise beto God who justifies the wicked....

    How does God justify the wicked?  It is by His will that there are vessels of dishonour/wrath and vessels of mercy/grace..for this

    exercize good/evil education of His children..  it is written....but that is what SOME OF YOU WERE.....

      and who can contend with His work of His hands? When He states...I will put a new spirit in you...and give you a new heart...

     and Christ's words...and I will gather out of my Kingdom all things that 'cause" sin..and all things that offend

    wherte does that leave any man..who has in fact borne the corruptible image in Adam...to raise his voice against the judgements of God.

   that all men shall be clothed in grace  of God and bear the image of the incorruptible3 one.


   Now..it is the last day...His judgements are made manifest..that the prince of this world is evil....

   it is 2000 yrs later..and that day ..as decreed in the Word..is to get brighter and brighter...

   the stone of stumbling..the cheif cornerstone was laid......it shattered the image of the King of Babylon..men as kings ruling in the matter

  and sitting on God's throne of judgement as to who is 'worthy" of grace.

   that 'STONE" not cut out by human hands is grace that grows into  the Mountain of the  Lord and fills the entire earth...it is God's Glory...

   the salvation of ALL mankind.   It is the work of HIS HANDS...and it is our righteousness..."I must do the works of My Father who sent me"

    'I will not let you go entirely unpunished...but will discipline you with justice"   Thus sin in the flesh is condemned in all men....

mmm hmm, mmm hmmm, mmm hmmm   :thumbsup:
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Offline lomarah

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2012, 08:11:33 PM »
AWESOME!

Quote
that 'STONE" not cut out by human hands is grace that grows into  the Mountain of the  Lord and fills the entire earth

I was just reading that in Daniel last night! And when I read sheila's post I felt a God explosion in my spirit, that's the only way to describe it lol!  :goodpost:
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Offline eaglesway

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2012, 04:02:44 PM »
If torment is forever then the sins of the wicked will mock the futile cross throughout eternity.ol. 1:16-21
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Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2012, 04:46:04 PM »
Quote from: lomarah on August 29, 2012, 08:11:33 PM
AWESOME!

Quote
that 'STONE" not cut out by human hands is grace that grows into  the Mountain of the  Lord and fills the entire earth

I was just reading that in Daniel last night! And when I read sheila's post I felt a God explosion in my spirit, that's the only way to describe it lol!  :goodpost:

Yes, I love that bit of Scripture too.  You know, it means that the Kingdom cannot be established by the arm of flesh, something man has been trying to do for thousands of years, beginning with Nimrod.  It is all God's doing.
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Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2012, 08:48:11 PM »
If torment is forever then the arm of the flesh will hav triumphed over the Spirit of Grace
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Offline LordsDaughter

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2012, 10:26:05 PM »
If torture is forever omniscient creator is a sadist.
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Offline reFORMer

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2012, 05:29:47 PM »
If torture is for ever then God, in sustaining its existence, must constantly monitor it with approval or He would have to change it.  This is an abominable God of great evil.

Of course, the true God is not like this, bless His Holy Name for ever!  Praise You Lord Jesus, that You are full of tender pity and delighting in lovingkindness!  We thank You that You have opened our understanding to the Truth, delivering our thoughts from bondage to hatred and our passions from controlling anger.  Bless You for the glorious peace and mercy of Your Own Nature You have revealed within us, changing us into the same image.  We give You thanks for ever!
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Offline eaglesway

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2012, 07:46:10 PM »
Quote from: reFORMer on September 03, 2012, 05:29:47 PM
If torture is for ever then God, in sustaining its existence, must constantly monitor it with approval or He would have to change it.  This is an abominable God of great evil.

Of course, the true God is not like this, bless His Holy Name for ever!  Praise You Lord Jesus, that You are full of tender pity and delighting in lovingkindness!  We thank You that You have opened our understanding to the Truth, delivering our thoughts from bondage to hatred and our passions from controlling anger.  Bless You for the glorious peace and mercy of Your Own Nature You have revealed within us, changing us into the same image.  We give You thanks for ever!

Oh Yeah! (that's modern English for AMEN! just in case anyone needs the translation :o)
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Offline CHB

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2012, 01:25:13 AM »
If ET is forever, Wouldn't Christ have to be tormented forever in order for anyone to escape this torture?

CHB
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Offline GodIsLove

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2012, 08:39:59 AM »
The thing is when someone says the word "torment" we instantly go to a dark, deep, medieval dungeon where an image of a 6.5 tall guy, with a black mask is whipping people just because he wants to.

Torment and and many other words mean something entirely different to us than what the Biblical writers had in mine when they wrote them.
Torment was a touchstone that they used to test precious metals.
Maybe that is what they meant
And maybe some of us are going to end as a pretty worthless metal, and will be ashamed!
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Offline eaglesway

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #43 on: December 03, 2012, 08:53:59 AM »
Shame may last for a moment, but redemption shall last for eternity. The Lamb has shed His blood for the sins of the whole world(Col 1:16-20). God will be all in all(1 Cor 15:23-28).

If anyone is caught in a trespass, let those who are spiritual among you restore such a one in a spirit of meekness, considering your own selves, lest you should stumble.
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Offline ded2daworld

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2012, 04:55:40 PM »
IMO, Torment is the word ET'ers use because they can stand the thought of "torment" but not the idea of torture. At least, that's my ET wifes excuse. When we've discussed it, she doesn't mind if I say eternal Torment but if I say eternal torture she gets angry because deep down, she knows God well enough to believe he couldn't torture forever.
"This will hurt just a little bit - FOREVER
A steady drop of water falling next to a thirsty man that is unable to reach it- that is torment for a few minutes or hours but FOREVER this same thing is torture. :Peace2:
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Offline eaglesway

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #45 on: December 03, 2012, 06:16:18 PM »
Perhaps there are forms of torment that would not be considered torture. However, once you add the word FOREVER to any of them, they definitely become TORTURE.
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Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #46 on: December 04, 2012, 03:04:22 AM »
I've heard people soft-peddle Hell, by saying it consists of existing forever outside the presence of God - or forever in that hard-to-define "outer darkness."
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Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline BruceLeeJR

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2013, 12:33:19 AM »
If Torment is Forever ...................


then God IS NOT the Savior of  ALL men, ESPECIALLY those that believe.
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Offline eaglesway

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2013, 04:53:27 AM »
Doh! :doh: Theres another one of those lying voices from the scriptures.
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Offline reFORMer

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Re: If Torment is Forever.....
« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2013, 07:38:58 AM »
Quote from: GodIsLove on December 03, 2012, 08:39:59 AM
The thing is when someone says the word "torment" we instantly go to a dark, deep, medieval dungeon where an image of a 6.5 tall guy, with a black mask is whipping people just because he wants to.

Torment and and many other words mean something entirely different to us than what the Biblical writers had in mine when they wrote them.
Torment was a touchstone that they used to test precious metals.
Maybe that is what they meant
And maybe some of us are going to end as a pretty worthless metal, and will be ashamed!

"Torment" is more mental.  "Torture" is more physical.  That's English.  The Greek just means "suffering."
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