Author Topic: If all will be saved then Christ died in vain  (Read 5966 times)

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Offline WhiteWings

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Re: If all will be saved then Christ died in vain
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2009, 07:55:53 PM »
What exactly makes the ETs claim saving ends at death? Is there a verse that supports that?
Lemme guess... the rich man wasn't allowed to get out of hell (to warn his brothers)
More verses?


That seems to be the main one.

Yes the Rich Man & Lazarus is always shown as proof of not getting out of eternal hell.

But the main verse I've seen people use to show that salvation is no longer available after death is this one:

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment
I believe that is true but it doesn't say anything about the severity of the judgement.


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Clearly, after death comes judgement, at which point it is too late to be saved if you aren't already, so its off to the eternal lake of fire for you.  Too bad you can't be saved at that point, even if you had a change of heart.  I mean everyone would repent in about 6 nanoseconds as they were being dropped into the lake of fire, so we can't have that.  At least that's what they (ET believer's) say...
Mmm, but dear Legoman! Those people don't repent because they prefer torture over Father saying "I love you"
Seems so obvious. I think 'the smoke goes up for ever and ever' is the smoke of the crack pipe of the ETs that have such logic  :winkgrin:

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You will not find one scripture that says Jesus will stop saving or that Jesus will fail.  In fact it is already finished!

The only reason ETs don't twist the above into "Jesus elected a few before He died" because then they themselfs are wood for eternal fire too.

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The saving effort was finished on the cross.  All that's left is for Gods plan to unfold - all will come to Christ on God's timetable.  Some before death, the rest after death.
That's only 5% Legoman.
The other 95% have the honor of Jesus and His angels visiting them in hell....
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline legoman

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Re: If all will be saved then Christ died in vain
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2009, 08:14:31 PM »
But the main verse I've seen people use to show that salvation is no longer available after death is this one:

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment
I believe that is true but it doesn't say anything about the severity of the judgement.


Agreed.

As for the rest of your reply... LOL  :winkgrin: :laughing7:


Offline Doc

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Re: If all will be saved then Christ died in vain
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2009, 10:01:25 PM »
Some further thoughts on this: 

I think why this argument comes up is that they (the ET believer) assumes, that Jesus will only save people while they are in this life.

And then the universalist must believe that "something else" saves everyone else that wasn't saved.  Therefore Christ died in vain since "something else" will save everyone "anyway".

This is the critical error.  The only thing that will save us is Jesus, and it won't be done "anyway" - it will be done God's way!

It seems there is a mental block in making the realization that Jesus can still keep on saving people after they have died and after they have been resurrected to judgement.

So with this view, there is some "logic" to the "Christ died in vain" argument.  But they make an incorrect assumption that Jesus stops saving after a person's death.

Legoman


That's certainly one of the unbiblical teachings that leads to that thinking. A lot of Christians have trouble believing the truth when they hear it, because it sounds contradictory to the lies they've been taught. Therein lies the rub, so to speak. People are so afraid of being decieved by us preaching "another gospel", but the irony is the "gospel" they've been taught is the other gospel (or one of them) we're warned about in scripture!

Open their eyes, Lord Jesus! (I know; all in good time).
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

Offline Nathan

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Re: If all will be saved then Christ died in vain
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2009, 08:34:29 PM »
That fits with the passage about how great the darkness is when those who claim light is in them is actually darkness . . .the hardest step to get an alcoholic to recover, is getting them to admit they're an alcoholic.

Offline Doc

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Re: If all will be saved then Christ died in vain
« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2009, 09:28:32 AM »
That fits with the passage about how great the darkness is when those who claim light is in them is actually darkness . . .the hardest step to get an alcoholic to recover, is getting them to admit they're an alcoholic.

Absolutely.  :thumbsup:
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

jadestorm

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Re: If all will be saved then Christ died in vain
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2009, 11:09:53 AM »
this reminds me of the prodical son.....

the son who remained home was angry when Father gladly welcomed the other home.
why should he receive the same reward was his mentality. so it's actually a great love story about both sons. i believe the son who remained home really represents "religion" through the mindset of law. He lived at home but still didn't understand his Father.
Prodigal sons have a personal encounter with Love and it embraces them with Grace.
It fills them with gratitude and floods them with relief. The more we are embraced in our Father's arms, the more we want to Love Him in return.

It's His Kindness that leads us to repentance  :HeartThrob: