Author Topic: Humans evil by nature  (Read 969 times)

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Offline Universalist Catholic

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Humans evil by nature
« on: March 28, 2010, 05:05:13 AM »
I constantly hear many traditionalist Churches that Human nature is inherently wicked, so we are not able to understand good and evil.  So they use this ideology to justify the teaching of Hell, by saying the human mind cannot understand how we are born deserving of hell, and how one sin could equal eternity in hell.  Basically they claim our fallen nature cannot make sense or see any reason in everlasting suffering.  They also use this same justification to defend every other absurd Dogma they make up, claiming that it is okay to treat women below men, but it is wrong to accept the idea that the earth was not created in six literal days.  But this does not overlook biblical passages speaking about humans being sinful.  The book of Genesis says at the creation account "And he saw that it was good.".  It seems to me that humans naturally are born righteous, but still inherited sinful inclinations.  For example, people would always understand theft, slander, animal abuse, vandalism, torture, littering, hate, sexual immortality, racism, mental abuse ect. as being evil, just through God given reasoning and the bad effects it has on humanity.  Yet on the other side, we have "Wolves dressed in sheepskins", which would look distinctly different, and easy to sort out from real sheep.  Like certain sinful actions might look good for the moment, such as exulting yourself above others(sexism, racism, denominalationism), having sexual relations with multiple partners, having an unhealthy love for money, or getting laughs at animals being abused. 
Best example I use for why we have inclinations to believe in eternal hell is based on our own weaknesses towards causing one more harm than the offense committed.  For example, a boss may fire a waiter/waitress because they gave someone the wrong order.  Its an honest mistake, but some weakness of the boss caused him not to think about it.  Yet if he were to think about it, he would realize that firing this person would be unnecessary discipline for an honest mistake.  So, it seems like the idea of eternal hell is based on some sinful desire to see someone who offended us in horrible punishment most likely out of bitterness.  Ex Tertullian.

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Humans evil by nature
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2010, 05:38:57 AM »
Good topic.

I think the scope of answers could be as numerous as people concerning why we believe what we believe about anything to be honest.

The bible says in Genesis that man became as Gods knowing Good and EVIL.  Personally I have never heard a sermon that says we cannot understand good and evil, mostly I hear that man has no excuse.   I hear the naturally wicked part but most of our religious lives we do not see the contradiction there.


For me I was simply raised that my choice to accept Christ elevated me above someone who refused to.  And it worked real good for my emotions for a long time.

It really was not until I saw that my religion did little to nothing for me that I started to seek out why that was.

I know now that it was not my nature that did that, it was just my turn to be touched by God.  Knowing that I know everyone gets their turn, no one is left out.



Offline reFORMer

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Re: Humans evil by nature
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2010, 06:57:36 AM »
excerpted from Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin:


So long as the popular creed and the Bible are held together, so long must this system of untruth continue. We pray to "our Father," to Whom in the next breath we assign acts towards His own children more cruel than any to which the worst earthly parent would stoop. We thus degrade the Godhead below, FAR BELOW, THE LEVEL OF HUMANITY. What is left for us to worship if the truth be a lie - if love essential be cruelty itself - if God be that, which I dare not write? Nor is this all. Having thus assigned to God acts of infinite cruelty, the popular creed goes on to assure us of His tenderness that never wearies - His love that never fails. What falsehood, what cruel mockery is this, coming from those who really mean, that this unfailing, eternal Love watches to all eternity, callous and unsympathising, the undying evil, the endless agony of its own children.

A merchant who has two contradictory measures is dishonest; but what of the theologian, of whom the same is true, is he less dishonest? It is cruel to torment a cat or a dog for five minutes, but to be callous to all eternity about the endless misery of a wife or a child, is quite right and good. The transient wrongs of a chimney-sweep excite the sincerest pity; but the eternal anguish of the lost human spirit awakes not even a passing gleam of pity in the Blessed. Let a criminal be tortured for an hour by human law, and all the civilized world is roused; but let the same criminal pass to torture without end, and these endless pangs do not disturb for a moment the raptures of the inhabitants of heaven. Vivisection is odious on this earth, but is most just in hell. Is it, then, odious when temporary, and most righteous when endless? e.g., is it most righteous for Eternal Love to vivisect for ever, or at least permit to be vivisected, His own children, in the sight of the Lamb, and the Holy Angels - Rev xiv. 10, (for the true meaning of this passage see p. 278-9.)

That Philanthropists (whom we honor) should be unable to bear the sight of the momentary suffering of the outcast here, while they are prepared to accept heaven's joy unmoved by the endless agony of the outcast hereafter, fills the mind with thoughts, for which amazement is too feeble a term.

The apologies offered for the traditional creed are truly worthy of it. Thus many shelter themselves under the phrase, "God will do His best for every man" I can only suppose such an apology meant, not as an argument, but as an ill-timed piece of pleasantry. For what are the admitted facts? An Almighty Being, Who is, on any possible hypothesis, perfectly free to create or not, yet forces on myriads of hapless children of His own the fatal gift of existence, knowing that in fact this life of theirs will ripen into endless misery and woe. To call this doing His best for them is an abuse of language -- could He do worse for them?
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Humans evil by nature
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2010, 01:34:32 PM »
I constantly hear many traditionalist Churches that Human nature is inherently wicked, so we are not able to understand good and evil.
In that case the "tree of knowledge of good and evil" wasn't very helpful.
It caused a huge problem (hell) but it lacks the info to understand it.
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So they use this ideology to justify the teaching of Hell, by saying the human mind cannot understand how we are born deserving of hell,
The other conclusion is that we don't understand why we all will be in heaven.
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and how one sin could equal eternity in hell.
Unless you are in the right church and tithe enough ofcourse.
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Basically they claim our fallen nature cannot make sense or see any reason in everlasting suffering.
So they admit they don't understand what they teach.
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They also use this same justification to defend every other absurd Dogma they make up,
It's even worse than circular reasoning. In circular reasoning the claims are made a facts and build upon.

But they state they have no clue about it and then use that guess as a fact to proof whatever they like.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...