Author Topic: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness  (Read 3318 times)

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Offline Universalist Catholic

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How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« on: February 10, 2010, 03:43:32 AM »
As we probably already know, a fundamental dogma of the Fundamentalist/Evangelical Protestant tradition is that one must be "Born again".  From what I understand, they go through some experience where they believe that they have been "Saved", and therefore unable to loose their salvation.  However, they deem that anyone who does not have their special "Born again" experience before they die are doomed to eternal hell.  Unfortunately, Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Mainline Protestants, Jehovahs Witness, and every non-Christian religion does not endorse the whole "Born again" experience.  So, these "Born Again Christians" claim that most people are doomed to hell, and have the ability to tell who is saved, and who is not.  As we probably already know, I dont believe that the people who did not experience that "Born Again" experience are doomed to Eternal Torture.  Honestly, that whole concept makes no sense, just cause you never had some special experience, hell for you. 

However, my personal experience with these "Born Agains" seem to be extremely frustrating.  They seemed to think that they were unable to sin, and that they know "The full truth", as only the spirit guides them.  Half the stuff they said did not make much sense, so Im not sure what spirit was guiding them. 

So, I was interested in what makes these Christians believe they are one of the few "Saved", while everyone else is in hell.  Is it Psychological.  Like a desire to cling to a high ego, and assurance that nothing can take them to hell, and justify it to a certain passage of the scriptures. 

Is it actually a spiritual thing?

Is it actually the work of Satan and his Demons? Considering satan can also twist scripture too.

Offline jabcat

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2010, 05:37:57 AM »
I believe scripture clearly teaches there is a time when one is brought to the place of knowing we need a Savior, then being given the faith to believe on Him unto salvation.  It's not a strange concept, even as unfortunately, many adherents of UR would have one believe.  Paul stated that would occur at different times for different people, each in his own order.  Some now (the ecclesia - the called out ones - set aside BY GOD - not by anyone's own volition - for a purpose of eventually bringing the rest in).  The difference as I see it is, most of orthodox Christendom believes if that doesn't happen in this lifetime, then that's it, it's over - hell forever - missing God's plans for the Ages, reconciling His whole creation.  We will either bow and confess Jesus as Lord in this lifetime and not be hurt of the second death, or we will eventually do so, because "every knee WILL bow and every tongue confess Jesus is Lord".

Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3:7 to not marvel when he said one must experience the spiritual new birth - be born from above - translated as born again.  Without being so, He said one could not see the kingdom of heaven.

There are many scriptures along those lines -

Mk 16:15-16  "Go into the whole world and proclaim the gospel to every creature. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned."

The jailer asked Paul and Silas what he must do to BE SAVED.  They answered "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved," (Acts 16:31).

Romans 10:13, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

"You used to be dead in your transgressions..." (Eph 2:1)   "....by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God"  (Eph 2:8)

Paul also said, "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?"

So no, I don't believe it's an "exclusivity" for one to look down upon others, feel better than, etc.  It's God's calling and choosing, as and when HE sees fit, for HIS purpose - which is to eventually save ALL His creation.  The scriptures say even the devils believe and tremble, but I would suggest they are yet to be redeemed – yet to be spiritually born from above, or born again.

'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me."  Rev. 3:20
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 06:20:48 AM by jabcat »

martincisneros

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2010, 06:21:52 AM »
Unless someone's born again, they can't see the Kingdom at all.  Scripture's pretty plain about it.  It's not something that's translation related, neither is it taken out of context.  This is a separate matter entirely from the eternal torment dogma, though it's close enough to the edges to where I come closer to understanding an ET argument over this than over other things.  However, since the Scriptures allow no such argument, other than to inform one that the wrath of God abides on someone who doesn't yet believe in the Son, it's not ultimately a barrier to their being gathered together into one in Christ in Ephesians 1:10 because whoever calls upon the Name of the Lord will be saved according to Romans 10 and He's the one that brings each one to that point.

MyOwnSheep

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2010, 03:56:32 PM »
There are often a number of ecstatic experiences involved in being a Born Again Christian.  What effect this, along with the meditative prayers and petitions to be changed, might eventually have on brain chemistry would only be conjecture. The question of whether the Born-Again recipe constitutes a spell is also conjecture though I promise you it does fit the formula. 

I do know that prior to rejecting Churchianity I was part of the Born Again group.  There was a sense of connection to others who were Born Again, even when I didn't know them and had no way of knowing that they were.  It was like an invisible thread connecting me to them and guiding me to them.  The same sense repelled me away from people who were evil, (drug dealers, rapists, etc).  I don't know the reasoning for this, scientific or otherwise.  It's plausable that the common ecstatic experience caused us to release a certain chemical that marked us out, or maybe it's something more spiritual.  I dunno.  Hormones can do alot.  I tend to think that anything that 'is' has a scientific explanation by simple reasoning that it 'is'.  If it occurs within this world it abides by laws according to this world whether we are as yet aware of those laws or not.

When I didn't go to Church it was as though I'd gone to Church.  Whatever message had been taught was on mind as I lay in bed, whatever songs were sung were playing through my head and I sung as I showered, and I'd find out later when people were surprised they hadn't seen me but thought I must have been there because of what I hummed and talked about.

I also once experienced a vision of another bornagains nightmare while she was having it.  That was just plain wierd and a little creeptastic.


Offline jabcat

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2010, 08:30:18 PM »
I guess I'd say since being born again is a requirement to seeing the kingdom of heaven (per Jesus), in its purest, most fundamental state, it must be alright.  :laughing7:

However, IMO, then we can add all sorts of different belief systems, sub-groups, denominational practices - along with all our own individual idosynchracies - even to the extent of mental illnesses (OCD type behaviors, superstitious thinking, etc.) that can "pollute" and distort the experience of which Jesus, Paul and others talked about - which is being given the faith to believe upon Jesus for salvation, and the Holy Spirit beginning a new work within us - the new spiritual birth, being "born from above" as Jesus stated it.

No doubt we can take anything pure and add our own twists to it - I'd suggest very few have not done so, including me.  But I think we/I will benefit from being very careful to not toss out the Spirit-revealed truths of scripture based on our own human frailty and oddities.  :bigGrin:

MyOwnSheep

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2010, 10:00:24 PM »
I guess I'd say since being born again is a requirement to seeing the kingdom of heaven (per Jesus), in its purest, most fundamental state, it must be alright.  :laughing7:

However, IMO, then we can add all sorts of different belief systems, sub-groups, denominational practices - along with all our own individual idosynchracies - even to the extent of mental illnesses (OCD type behaviors, superstitious thinking, etc.) that can "pollute" and distort the experience of which Jesus, Paul and others talked about - which is being given the faith to believe upon Jesus for salvation, and the Holy Spirit beginning a new work within us - the new spiritual birth, being "born from above" as Jesus stated it.

No doubt we can take anything pure and add our own twists to it - I'd suggest very few have not done so, including me.  But I think we/I will benefit from being very careful to not toss out the Spirit-revealed truths of scripture based on our own human frailty and oddities.  :bigGrin:

An important distinction to concider is what someone actually means when they refer to being 'Born Again' and how much that alligns with scripture.  Most evangelical churches teach that to be 'Born Again' one must have prayed a formulaic prayer first declaring faith in certain tennets, then repenting, then offering a formal invitation for the Holy Spirit/JC/God to indwell.  Some go so far as to include a simple declaration or request to become dead to self so that they might be born again.  They teach that beyond this formulae there can be no salvation, no relationship with God, and only eternal torment awaits.

Is this truly, literally, what the scriptures teach in reference to spiritual death and rebirth?  True inner transformation of thought and world view does not come from speaking some magic words to conjure an indwelling spirit.  Surely the true meaning of inner death to self deserves some deeper examination, along with the accompanying rebirth?  The process of potters clay being molded and entering a fire and coming out as new is far more involved than is implied by the magic supplication.  Where's the death and rebirth in that?  Where's the interaction with a Divine Personality becoming one and making our beings whole?  How can a Living God not be capable of working in and through the lives of willing people without the magic prayer prescribed by a man-made Churchianity?

Offline rosered

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2010, 10:28:56 PM »
 

  Read  your posts  Jab , and M.O. S .
 Thanks I needed that  :thumbsup:
 that pure seed / Word of God is born out of Love and its not  ever   designed to / decay  corrupt .  pure love one of a kind /heirloom  :HeartThrob:
I do believe it can  slow in growth  at times ,and the roots remain .   but yet ,  it never dies!  :icon_flower:

Offline jabcat

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2010, 10:47:16 PM »
Yeah, I don't espouse a "formulaic prayer"...I espouse that the Holy Spirit visits each one, in their due time, in their order, GIVES faith to believe on Jesus as the Savior.

The jailer asked Paul and Silas what he must do to BE SAVED.  They answered "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved," (Acts 16:31).

Romans 10:13, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

"You used to be dead in your transgressions..." (Eph 2:1)   "....by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God"  (Eph 2:8)

It's the new birth.  Birth describes a beginning.  When a baby's born, he/she does suddenly exist, but then there's a long process of growth (sanctification, "growing in grace and knowledge" is how the scriptures describe it).  However, the scriptures also state that a believer is "sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise - "12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory. Eph. 1  Also, "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come."  

So again, I believe it's a real, knowable experience - and must be, otherwise we have head knowledge and are still living according to the flesh/our carnal mind - which is enmity against God.

I was very happy to hear Gary Amirault (site owner) the other day say "I still say 'born again'"...I will continually proclaim the need of "call upon the name of the Lord and you shall be saved" - just will try to not add a bunch of manmade beliefs and doctrines to it - again though, not flushing the whole thing just  because of our tendency to add our own traditions to the truth.  

« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 10:50:54 PM by jabcat »

MyOwnSheep

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2010, 10:55:09 PM »
Yeah, I don't espouse a "formulaic prayer"...I espouse that the Holy Spirit visits each one, in their due time, in their order, GIVES faith to believe on Jesus as the Savior.

The jailer asked Paul and Silas what he must do to BE SAVED.  They answered "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved," (Acts 16:31).

Romans 10:13, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

"You used to be dead in your transgressions..." (Eph 2:1)   "....by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God"  (Eph 2:8)

It's the new birth.  Birth describes a beginning.  When a baby's born, he/she does suddenly exist, but then there's a long process of growth (sanctification, "growing in grace and knowledge" is how the scriptures describe it).  However, the scriptures also state that a believer is "sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise - "12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory. Eph. 1  Also, "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come."  

So again, I believe it's a real, knowable experience - and must be, otherwise we have head knowledge and are still living according to the flesh/our carnal mind - which is enmity against God.

I was very happy to hear Gary Amirault (site owner) the other day say "I still say 'born again'"...I will continually proclaim the need of "call upon the name of the Lord and you shall be saved" - just will try to not add a bunch of manmade beliefs and doctrines to it - again though, not flushing the whole thing just  because of our tendency to add our own traditions to the truth.  



That's a cool way of lookiing at it.

Offline jabcat

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2010, 10:59:21 PM »
Good, thanks  :bigGrin:

They say even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then  :winkgrin:

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2010, 01:02:31 AM »
As we probably already know, a fundamental dogma of the Fundamentalist/Evangelical Protestant tradition is that one must be "Born again".  From what I understand, they go through some experience where they believe that they have been "Saved", and therefore unable to loose their salvation.  However, they deem that anyone who does not have their special "Born again" experience before they die are doomed to eternal hell.  Unfortunately, Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Mainline Protestants, Jehovahs Witness, and every non-Christian religion does not endorse the whole "Born again" experience.  So, these "Born Again Christians" claim that most people are doomed to hell, and have the ability to tell who is saved, and who is not.  As we probably already know, I dont believe that the people who did not experience that "Born Again" experience are doomed to Eternal Torture.  Honestly, that whole concept makes no sense, just cause you never had some special experience, hell for you. 

However, my personal experience with these "Born Agains" seem to be extremely frustrating.  They seemed to think that they were unable to sin, and that they know "The full truth", as only the spirit guides them.  Half the stuff they said did not make much sense, so Im not sure what spirit was guiding them. 

So, I was interested in what makes these Christians believe they are one of the few "Saved", while everyone else is in hell.  Is it Psychological.  Like a desire to cling to a high ego, and assurance that nothing can take them to hell, and justify it to a certain passage of the scriptures. 

Is it actually a spiritual thing?

Is it actually the work of Satan and his Demons? Considering satan can also twist scripture too.


I think it depends on the person.   My Mom and Dad have that exact belief and my mom is the most vocal about it, I think my Dad just don't rock that boat to heavily because he has to live with my Mom , LOL.

My Mom grew up in a very abusive environment and was shamed because my grandfather divorced my grandmother and in their generation combined with that religious point of view there was deep guilt placed upon the family.

In my opinion understanding that me and my mother have butted heads over religion quite often about the very thing you talk about I believe from my Moms standpoint it is about a psychological need to feel special and set apart from others.  There is low self esteem at work and it is a way that works emotionally to over come that.



Offline peacemaker

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2010, 06:40:26 AM »
Unless one is Spiritually renewed from above, they cannot see the kingdom of  Heaven.

"A renewing of the mind that is equal to the depth or heart of the Spirit."

peacemaker

Offline reFORMer

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2010, 07:36:24 AM »

Salvation is not just from sin, it is to partake of the Divine nature. Many think it is about a better state in death. Jesus didn't tell us that. He said that if we overcome as He overcame we will sit in His throne with Him, even as He overcame and sat down in His Father's throne. God's intention for man is not even to die and go to heaven; but, to live, as Paul said, "...if by any means I might attain to the out resurrection out from among the dead." Total victory, not only for each of us, but for all. God will make us in His image and likeness and we will have dominion. His working for us and in us is for us to, "...all come to a perfect (mature, finished) man, the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ!" (Eph 4) Any of us who are ahead of any others is only for us to bring them in.  That's why we're called priests.  In Hebrews it says something to the effect, (loosely quoted here,) "None take this honor [to be a priest] unto themselves, but only those appointed by God. Even Christ was appointed by the Father as High Priest according to the order of Melchizedek."

We are not "saved" by what God does in us; but, by what God has done in Christ. "For other foundation can no one lay beside that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ." (1 Co 3:11, CLT) Certainly, building on that foundation we have a reliable expectation of the manifestation of God in our lives; but, our experience is not the foundation. Jesus and His work is. Jesus says that, "If I be lifted up from the earth (signifying the death He would die,) I will drag all mankind unto Me." Isaiah and Paul have all flesh coming to God. "...that in the name of Jesus every knee should be bowing, celestial and terrestrial and subterranean, and every tongue should be acclaiming that Jesus Christ is Lord, for the glory of God, the Father." (Phil 2:10-11, CLT) This is God's work. "And no one is able to say "Lord is Jesus" except by holy spirit." (1 Co 12:3, CLT) ("Lord:" Grk: kurios "the supreme, ultimate authority.") Also, "...if ever you should be avowing with your mouth the declaration that Jesus is Lord, and should be believing in your heart that God rouses Him from among the dead, you shall be saved." (Rom 10:9, CLT) So they are standing there, raised from the dead and facing a resurrected immortal Jesus in glory upon the throne of God. It is sure they are believing in the resurrection and are moved by the Holy Spirit to acclaim Jesus as Lord.  According to the Holy Scripture that means they are "saved." I know many pretend to read between the lines, but can they read the lines themselves?

People are not automatically "in" salvation. Even those that say they've been born again and filled with the Spirit are not automatically "in."  It is only to the Overcomers, to those who are the Victors is the promise to not be hurt by the second death, which is the lake of fire: "Who has an ear, let him hear what the spirit is saying to the ecclesias. 'The one who is conquering may under no circumstances be injured by the second death.'" (Rev 2:11, CLT)
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline jabcat

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2010, 12:54:28 PM »
I think you bring up a good point here for further discussion alright, and it forced me to think through some things - thanks.   :bigGrin:  

We are not "saved" by what God does in us; but, by what God has done in Christ.

Given the inability to fully explain, I personally sort of see it as "both" - i.e., what God does in us is because of and through Jesus - based on the work of the cross, but certainly in us.  Otherwise, we'd still be "dead through our trespasses and sins"...(Eph 2:1-10)  excerpt - "but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,  even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved)"..

It is only to the Overcomers, to those who are the Victors is the promise to not be hurt by the second death, which is the lake of fire: "Who has an ear, let him hear what the spirit is saying to the ecclesias. 'The one who is conquering may under no circumstances be injured by the second death.'" (Rev 2:11, CLT)

I personally don't believe the above means that people who have been given faith to believe on Jesus for salvation are not spiritually born from above - born again - saved.  "for it's by GRACE are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, lest any man should boast";  and " believe on the Lord Jesus/call upon the name of the Lord and you shall be saved".  So perhaps a saved person may still suffer some loss in the Presence of God (Lake of Fire) - "wood, hay, stubble burned/spirit saved in the day of the Lord", yet will still have had and will have a place in the Kingdom already secured and sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise - and that the overcomers are more of a select company that will have an even more specific place/position/purpose  within the kingdom - and not hurt at all of the 2nd death.  I believe both of these "groups" are within the group of the "saved by grace"  already, and will have a different accounting/situation standing before the Lord than a completly yet-to-be-saved unbeliever.  (Although I also understand/believe that those who haven't heard or had any understanding at all, the "innocents" in this lifetime, will likely have a very quick, "easy" conversion when coming face to face with the Savior.)  Don't have a whole lot of obvious scripture on which to base that, except perhaps the "few/many stripes" scripture.  Conjecture, but perhaps "one stripe" could be a quick, "oh, look what I missed out on - of course Jesus is the Savior - Lord I believe".   :Chinscratch:    James.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 02:27:39 PM by jabcat »

Offline rosered

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2010, 02:30:24 PM »

 
  wow   !!Great posts  both   James   Jabcat and  Rhodes  :HeartThrob:
 
  I am convinced  that the love of Christ is the only thing that does overcome  this world , and when  you can know that within  so connected to the Lord  you have a victory , because He is just so faithful  and  that is sooooooooooooo  humbling  to  "grasp"  He will not leave you or forsake you ,
  but  in His stillness  , your  faith is  exercised , waiting on the power of the Lord to  complete you ..

Offline Molly

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2010, 04:44:35 PM »
Quote from: Jab
I believe both of these "groups" are within the group of the "saved by grace"  already, and will have a different accounting/situation standing before the Lord than a completly yet-to-be-saved unbeliever.

Did you ever wonder why, if God is just doing his thing, he would bother to tell us about different groups?  If I have no part in it at all, why tell me--some of you will end up like this, some like that?

But we see Paul egging us on...



1 Corinthians 9:24
Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.



Offline jabcat

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2010, 08:35:20 PM »
 :HeartThrob: rosie.

Molly, good question.  I know there's a bunch of different things to look at with this topic.  Seems to me some of the issues are; our choices within parameters God sets;  the creation of vessels of honor and dishonor;  the order of "all men made alive";  God doing His good pleasure;  God working all things according to His will;  if we sin we have an Advocate with the Father;  different positions/responsibilities within the kingdom;  what is the prize being discussed since salvation is by grace not works;  (although I personally don't live my life for rewards) there does seem to be a system of rewards for obedience - (so works and "running" are to be obedient and/or obtain rewards, including peace, joy, etc. in this lifetime?  that's more so how I see it);  and ultimately, in the final analysis, anything we do is only through the power of God enabling and empowering us.  There's probably at least a couple hundred others....

Your post reminds me of something I had actually intended to look at some more, so will do so briefly, and others can add to it and develop it further if desired.

Seems we have   1.  unbelievers   a) heard, rejected/hardened, and    b) never heard or understood, "innocent"  [babies, etc.]       2.    believers/saved, wide range including    a) unfaithful/"worldly", not walking according to the "high calling",   b) faithful, mostly living according to the light they have, not fully matured,     c) overcomers, specially "fired"/salted, developed for service at the throne - (rule and reign with Christ as Paul says, or does that include all believers, again as Paul said, priests and kings - I don't know that with that reference he was specifically addressing the overcomers  :dontknow:).  [Also, I don't believe the "God is no respector of persons" negates all this, although He does love everyone and ultimately has a perfect plan for everyone - but it may not all look the same right now  :2c:.]

So no, I don't fully grasp it...I just have 2 main things I hinge it all on here - WE'RE SAVED BY GRACE, AND GOD IS IN CONTROL.  Many of the intricacies above, I really think most of us are learning as we live day to day in this walk of experience of good and evil He's placed us in.   :HeartThrob:
« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 09:35:17 PM by jabcat »

Offline peacemaker

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2010, 07:41:25 PM »
1 Corinthians 9:24
Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

"Slow and steady wins the race" is a proverb to live by, denoting a concise expression of a truth or principle; He who finishes, wins.

peacemaker

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2010, 04:46:18 AM »
Does anyone remember the old tyme gospel tune, "Just Inside the Gate?" Several times I've been so hard pressed there was nothing left I could think of except Jesus name. I was reduced to just calling on the name of "Jesus." So much for highly developed and articulate spirituality!
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline rosered

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2010, 05:52:48 AM »
Does anyone remember the old tyme gospel tune, "Just Inside the Gate?" Several times I've been so hard pressed there was nothing left I could think of except Jesus name. I was reduced to just calling on the name of "Jesus." So much for highly developed and articulate spirituality!


  :IloveU:  AMEN!!  faith as a   little one   a trusting child  :HeartThrob:
 
 Luk 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
 
Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
 I dont know the song  Bro  J 
 but sure like what your saying  :icon_flower:

Offline eaglesway

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2010, 05:28:03 AM »

Salvation is not just from sin, it is to partake of the Divine nature. Many think it is about a better state in death. Jesus didn't tell us that. He said that if we overcome as He overcame we will sit in His throne with Him, even as He overcame and sat down in His Father's throne. God's intention for man is not even to die and go to heaven; but, to live, as Paul said, "...if by any means I might attain to the out resurrection out from among the dead." Total victory, not only for each of us, but for all. God will make us in His image and likeness and we will have dominion. His working for us and in us is for us to, "...all come to a perfect (mature, finished) man, the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ!" (Eph 4) Any of us who are ahead of any others is only for us to bring them in.  That's why we're called priests.  In Hebrews it says something to the effect, (loosely quoted here,) "None take this honor [to be a priest] unto themselves, but only those appointed by God. Even Christ was appointed by the Father as High Priest according to the order of Melchizedek."

The entire post was excellent/edifying. Of all the things modern Christianity lacks, it is the understanding that Jesus is the express image of the invisible God and the radiance of the Father's glory. Therefore when we are "born again by an incorruptible seed"(1 Pet 1:23)- the seed is Jesus. We have received, in that seed, "everything pertaining to life and godliness.....that we might become partakers of the divine nature"(2 Pet 1:3,4). Receive the "word implanted" (engrafted logos) which is "able to save(sozo deliver) your souls". We are born again as Peter put it, "unto a fervent love of the brethren" and are to "love one another fervently from a pure heart". As we grow into the unity of the faith, and the knowledge of the son of God, unto the mature man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ- we are speaking the truth in love so that the body can build itself up through the effectual working of each member. "By this the world will know you are my disciples- by your love one for another". In other words, "If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me". As long as we walk like mortal men, like the sons of disobedience, carnal divided spiteful and arrogant, we are only "saved" in theory. Peter proclaimed, "Be saved from this perverse generation". Only as we are transformed into the image of Christ, partaking of the divine nature, are we truly "being saved".

What we are being saved from is the beast within, the spirit that now works in the sons of disobedience, and the kolasis that results from it- death in all its forms.

What we are being saved into- is partaking of the divine nature, becoming fountainheads of the Holy Spirit, and "aionian zoe".

If we continue faithful to the end we will be delivered from kolasis.

Many are called, few are chosen.

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
(2Co 4:4-6)


The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2010, 05:51:17 AM »





John 3:29;
He who has the bride is the bridegroom; and the bridegroom's friend who stands by his side and listens to him, rejoices heartily on account of the bridegroom's happiness. Therefore this joy of mine is now complete.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2010, 05:57:46 AM »
That verse is so beautiful Beloved Servant - and I just saw it anew. Grace and peace be multiplied unto you, John
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2010, 10:43:39 PM »
One thing I have thought of a few times when referring to being 'Born Again' is the thought that Christians (the ones I grew up with) have always said that you can turn away from your 'Born Again'ness.  How is this possible?  Once you're born into this world from the womb, you can't be un-born... wouldn't the same go for being 'born again' in Christ?  I can understand rejecting the teachings, but can being born again be taken away from a person?

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: How would we explain the "Born again" Christian exclusiveness
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2010, 11:02:14 PM »


Ephesians 4:30
And do not be causing sorrow to the Holy Spirit of God by which you are sealed for the day of deliverance
   
 
2 Corinthians 1
21 Now He Who is confirming us together with you in Christ, and anoints us, is God,
22 Who also seals us and is giving the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
       
 
Ephesians 1:13
In Whom you also — on hearing the word of truth, the evangel of your salvation — in Whom on believing also, you are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise

2 Corinthians 5:5
Now He Who produces us for this same longing is God, Who is also giving us the earnest of the Spirit


Our salvation is never in jeopardy.
However, one's inheritance can be.