Author Topic: Hell preachers  (Read 6232 times)

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Offline micah7:9

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Hell preachers
« on: August 20, 2011, 10:07:40 PM »
This just maybe my folly, but why do you suppose great preachers and evangelists such as D.L.Moody,  Charles Spurgen, Calvin, Johnathan Edwards, who surely read the Word of God, that spoke greatly of God's love, chose to preach a message to millions of how that God of love would carry such a vendetta, that was so hateful.
How is it they chose a message of fear rather than love to win, as they said, souls?
I know why today that message is preached, contend if you will, but it is for money.

Thanks and Peace.  :Peace:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2011, 11:46:59 PM »
There is a verse about it somewhere in the Bible.
If you teach your children when they are young they continue to follow the teaching when they get older.
So those people you mentioned learned a certain view from their parents. Based on that view they follow certain education. If it's for example a Catholic school you can bet on it Trinity and virgin Mary are a fact. Nothing to discuss. No honest study. You simply won't get your degree on a Catholic uni if you don't believe in trinity and other stuff.
There is no searching. Just walking the narrow road of the doctrine...
 :2c:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2011, 12:24:00 AM »
Yeah your correct, its just that these men really read the Bible, a lot, and still came up with such fearful preaching of a God of Love.
Is just a mind boggler for me that they would zero in on such a vengeful teaching to "save" souls to a loving God.  :sigh:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2011, 01:22:59 AM »
There's a tradition involved as WW says, through which men filter the scriptures and others beliefs.  It colors our world.

Also, I believe there's a blindness.  We're all veiled, some to more or lesser extent - as God sees fit.   :2c:

That said, I understand your difficulty believing it.  I have had those moments too.  :)
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

HartleyIrvinDamboiseII

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2011, 03:00:21 AM »
Hosea 4 : 6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest   "( or messenger of life, preacher of Life, Lee's in sert )"to me: seeing thou has forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

KJV.      the carnal has a lot to say, but the spiritual has more to say.   Lee

Offline Nathan

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2011, 04:23:37 AM »
I also think it has to do with "timing".  Many times people tried to kill Jesus but he would always escape their grasp because "it wasn't his time".  Everything is "according to plan".  And I think the blue-print of that plant lies in the Scriptures at least on a general consensus.  I see this part of it falling in alignment with the "day is a thousand years" principle in correlation with the Levitical law of Moses. . . .and Genesis creation foundations.  In other words . . .the first 6 thousand years, men measured everything according to labor . . .but the Sabbath day is now beginning . ..man has been here for 6 thousand years . .six days . . and we're entering into the seventh . .the Sabbath . .and on this day, the rules are the opposite than the previous six.

And as the rules go, so goes the atmoshpere, the spriit realm around us is manifesting mysteries that were once hidden.  Not only are they being seen, but they are being birthed, understood, reproduced and lived.  And . .so goes the message.  What once was doom and gloom, now is celebration and triumph.  We're literally in a new day . . and . . for those who don't agree with the math . . .let me then point you to what Jesus stated, and I've said this several times before, but here's yet another opportunity . . .

"Tear this temple down and in three days I will raise it up . . .. "  Well, I believe "we" are that temple . ."this" is that third day as it was 2000 years ago that he proclaimed that . . .two days have passed and this generation is the dawning of the third day . . .and the UR message is the paradigm shift from ET that is the gospel now, just like it was in the first generation of the church.  Restoration is among us.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2011, 08:22:34 AM »
There's a tradition involved as WW says, through which men filter the scriptures and others beliefs.  It colors our world.

Also, I believe there's a blindness.  We're all veiled, some to more or lesser extent - as God sees fit.   :2c:
Likely that filter is one of the veils. A veil makes one blind. A filter sends one in the wrong direction.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

PaoloNuevo

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2011, 08:17:17 AM »
For God has consigned all Bible thumpers and Perdition lovers to their disobedience.. that He might have mercy on them.

Romans 11: 32

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2011, 08:37:32 AM »
 :laughing7:

Are they really disobediant? Disobediance is breaking rules you are aware of. I'm sure for some it's just Hell Sells, but I think most ETs honestly believe.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2011, 02:46:05 PM »
When I think about this, I keep remembering the cherubim in the temple.  God tells them to make a graven image and put it as the center point of worship for an idolatrous nation.  Why would he do that?  They were making the golden calf(a cherub?) while Moses was up on the mount.  He had also just told them you shall make no image of anything in the heavens or earth.  Yet there it is.  It becomes the object of idolatry for them, their Moloch and Chiun.  He knew this would happen.  Why would He do that?

I don't know exactly (obviously) but it seems to me He provides for the false as well as the real.  He's giving them both choices, spirit and truth, or carnal and mixed/false.  Its all part of the plan.  The human corporate experience of the destructive nature of man made religion, to give a contrast to the pure light of spirit and truth.  Those hell preachers, do they really have a choice to believe otherwise?

They are veiled, we are still veiled.   :2c:


PaoloNuevo

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2011, 03:06:03 PM »
Quote
Are they really disobediant? Disobediance is breaking rules you are aware of. I'm sure for some it's just Hell Sells, but I think most ETs honestly believe.

They disobey by preaching a false gospel of Satan's victory and Christ's defeat... but they only do so because God has consigned them to that place of unbelief... that He might show them Light later on too...

myrddin

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2011, 09:38:55 PM »
Could be money or acceptance from ones peers.  Another motivation is that people find enough reason (that is, God moves on their hearts and minds) to believe in God and the Scriptures, and they love God.  But they prepare for the worst (i.e., the doctrine of ET), and grit their teeth and try to devise ways to make it, if not palatable, acceptable to their wounded and confused (about the character of God) minds.  I would think most Christians who accept ET and take Scripture seriously are like this.

Pastors are in a hard spot, because they subscribe to doctrinal statements which include ET, even if it's an understated tenet.  What would happen to their jobs and their families if they came out of the closet and recognized the truth of universal reconciliation?

And yeah, it could also be that a veil is over their hearts.  One was over mine for years/decades.  I knew I'd have to come to grips with Hell, but never did until 6 months ago.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2011, 11:53:39 PM »
Makes you kinda wonder if pastors are "supposed" to financially have to rely on their congregation for their livelihood.  I think once it goes there, the pastor becomes "yoked" to the very flock he's supposed to be the leader of.  As a leader, one is to be free to go into the depths in which followers have never gone themselves.  But when a pastor goes "full time", the influence shifts back to the congregation.  If they don't give, he doesn't eat.  If he doesn't preach what they're interested in hearing, they'll take their tithe to another . . .so . . .he's bound himself inadvertently.  Paul was again a good example of this, he didn't rely on anyone's giving.  He accepted what was given and it was even expected that the followers be generous in giving to the leaders.  But he didn't let the giving become his dependance. 

Many pastors may balk at the idea of preaching UR not because they don't believe in it, but because it'll affect their status, their income, their reputation . . .all of the things they've built up will be torn down.  Hmm . . . makes ya wonder if that wasn't by plan.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2011, 03:58:32 AM »
Nope, not me. I dont know when pastoring became a paying job, but along time ago the Lord showed me that should it be a sanctioned religion, stay way from it. Any sect or denomination  that needs money to keep the doors open, be leary. My opinion only of course, but any supposed man of God that can read eternal damnation, a hell where mankind will spend an "eternity" without hope in suffering in the Word of God, was bought and paid for from the onset. There is no confusion in their study, no conformation of what the Word of God says, only a job where they would not have to "labor as physical" Without religious schools or theological seminaries, and you just studied and read the Bible with prayer, no man who believed in Jesus Christ would ever find the blasphemous teaching of a eternal place called hell. Hell preachers are money preachers who enjoy control.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2011, 08:47:21 AM »
Nope, not me. I dont know when pastoring became a paying job, but along time ago the Lord showed me that should it be a sanctioned religion, stay way from it. Any sect or denomination  that needs money to keep the doors open, be leary.
The need for money isn't bad in itself. The Bible promotes honest wages. God gave each tribe their piece of land and the priesthood lived of "donations". All kinds of research takes lots of time too. So personally I see no problem in making some $ from Bible related things.
The problem is that most people work for a certain denomination that pays their bills. At that point it becomes a job like many others. If you work for company A, by defenition it means company  A sells the good stuff and all others sell junk. That said the difference with other jobs is that job education is (almsot) unbiased but religious education is like recieving education from company A.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Vicstar

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2011, 01:47:56 AM »
Hi..I believed in eternal hell for most of my christian life - I didn't like it but accepted it. Because of that when I read the bible I viewed it from that perspective. Now my eyes have been opened to a different, greater perspective. I don't know about all of them, but I do think that most preachers who accept and preach about eternal hell honestly believe it to be true.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2011, 01:52:51 AM »


...perhaps some of them.

The majority WANT it to be true.

Self-righteous judgment!


Vicstar

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2011, 01:58:45 AM »
Well that's not for us to say. However God chooses who will believe and who's eyes will be darkened, so it is very possible that they cannot see the truth about this.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2011, 02:28:06 AM »


Amen...

fallen angels.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2011, 02:31:20 AM »



how some ever:
wake o'sleeper, He knocks on every door, whosoever turns...

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2011, 02:33:15 AM »


Romans 1:20 >>
   

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Vicstar

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2011, 02:36:08 AM »
11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2011, 02:39:28 AM »


Alas... what a murmur and complain can do.

Vicstar

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2011, 02:47:07 AM »
lol...ok, I get it you don't believe in predestination. That's ok - we can agree to disagree on that. But praise God that we both have the revelation of His unfailing mercy for all mankind.  :thumbsup:

Offline jabcat

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Re: Hell preachers
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2011, 02:56:32 AM »
the revelation of His unfailing mercy for all mankind.  :thumbsup:

 :2thumbs:

and they began saying to the woman, "It is no longer because of your speech that we are believing, for we have heard Him for ourselves, and we are aware that this One is truly the Savior of the world."  Jn. 4:42
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23