Author Topic: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell  (Read 2562 times)

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Offline Hamilton88

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"Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« on: June 24, 2013, 01:59:24 AM »
http://realromancatholic.com/2013/02/09/st-john-bosco-is-taken-on-a-tour-of-hell/

What do you think? To me, it sounds like it was demonically inspired. It is not only very, very, VERY unbiblical, it also promotes the idolatry of Eucharistic  and Marian devotions. Apparently, an all-powerful God is incapable of simply unable to do something as simple as redeem sinful souls, even though all things are possible with Him. It also promotes serving God simply out of the fear of Hell, rather than love.

The ending is revealing, since it is common for demonic spirits to attack a person through burns and nightmares. Also, for such a "saintly" man, he reguraly encuntered demons: http://www.controversialfiles.info/2013/01/don-boscos-experiences-with-paranormal.html.

I do not recall anywhere in the Bible where God's saints experienced demonic attacks.

« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 02:09:32 AM by Hamilton88 »

Offline Wayfaring Stranger

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2013, 03:10:28 AM »
I was at the bookstore the other day and this book caught my attention:
http://www.amazon.com/Heaven-Real-But-Hell-Eyewitness/dp/0983009309


It seems as though every since 23 Minutes In Hell other "prophets" have risen up to tell us their stories of "hell."

A message from the "Biography" section of the Amazon page:

Quote
In these messages, our Lady too reminds us that the earth is in danger and will suffer with Fire. That God's wrath cannot be sustained any longer and it will fall on us because man refuses to break with sin. That God's mercy all of these years were to draw as many as possible to Him, extending His Arm to save them but very few only listened and understood. Our Lady says that we are very near the events that have been foretold by God. That His mercy will not hold much longer and that the time is coming where everybody will be tested and the earth will spew out from within it rivers of fire. The people of the world then will understand their worthlessness without having had God in their hearts. And finally, that the time has come where the household of God will be tested and those who refused His mercy will taste God's Fire.

There are several pages of dire statements like that filled with fear and panic.  This message is IMPORTANT and at one point the biography compares the author Vassula Ryden to the prophet Daniel, one would think that Mrs. Ryden would be screaming from the rooftops with these warnings.  Yet she charging TWENTY-FIVE dollars to read her book and hear her "prophecy."  What a LOAD of you know what.  Isn't it amazing that modern day "prophets" think first about their PROFITS?  Could you imagine Daniel or Isaiah or John the Baptist charging money for their prophecies?

"For we are not like so many, peddling the word of God. To the contrary, in Christ we speak in the sight of God as men of sincerity, as men sent from God." II Cor. 2:17

This version is also good:
"We are not like so many others, who handle God's message as if it were cheap merchandise; but because God has sent us, we speak with sincerity in his presence, as servants of Christ."

What also blows my mind is these "prophets" always get messages that back their worldview, if they're Catholic they get a Catholic vision, if they're protestant they get a protestant vision, this particular woman is Orthodox so imagine that she got an Orthodox vision.  Either A)God is sending conflicting messages or B) something is rotten in the state of Denmark.  I'll pick door B.
"There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male or female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus" (Gal 3:28)

Offline rosered

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2013, 04:12:32 AM »

 
 Hamilton88 , I would not put much stock in a   profit /prophet  book
 
  Knowing will increase    but ends   but Love never fails
 
  Great point Wayfaring stranger !  thanks for the scripts   :friendstu:
 
 1 Corinthians 13
GOD'S WORD Translation (GW)

Love
13 I may speak in the languages of humans and of angels. But if I don't have love, I am a loud gong or a clashing cymbal.

2 I may have the gift to speak what God has revealed, and I may understand all mysteries and have all knowledge.

I may even have enough faith to move mountains. But if I don't have love, I am nothing. 3 I may even give away all that I have and give up my body to be burned.

 But if I don't have love, none of these things will help me.



4 Love is patient. Love is kind. Love isn't jealous. It doesn't sing its own praises. It isn't arrogant. 5 It isn't rude. It doesn't think about itself. It isn't irritable. It doesn't keep track of wrongs. 6 It isn't happy when injustice is done, but it is happy with the truth. 7 Love never stops being patient, never stops believing, never stops hoping, never gives up.

8 Love never comes to an end.


There is the gift of speaking what God has revealed, but it will no longer be used.

 There is the gift of speaking in other languages, but it will stop by itself.





There is the gift of knowledge, but it will no longer be used.
 

9 Our knowledge is incomplete and our ability to speak what God has revealed is incomplete
.
 
 
10 But when what is complete comes, then what is incomplete will no longer be used.


11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, thought like a child, and reasoned like a child.

 When I became an adult, I no longer used childish ways.

12 Now we see a blurred image in a mirror.

Then we will see very clearly. Now my knowledge is incomplete.

 Then I will have complete knowledge as God has complete knowledge of me.

13 So these three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the best one of these is love.

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2013, 04:48:33 AM »
Think about it. How many church members believe in hell? Good market.
Doesn't pay to write a book that disagrees withy "accepted" beliefs of mainstream.

Diet books usually have "eat all you want and lose weight without exercise" They sell - that's what people want to hear
They will not say, exercise, eat 1/3 what you normally do, don't eat junk food or processed foods.
How can they make a book out of that one sentence? ...and one sentence that dieters don't want to hear. :Peace2:
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2013, 07:29:51 AM »
All those book$ about Hell remind me of all the book$ a few years back about the prayer of Jabez.  I waited until the hubbub all died down, bought a "Prayer of Jabez" book, read it, and thought, "Is that all it was about?  What a gyp!"  :sigh:  Maybe I was expecting too much...

As for book$ about Hell, at least the Jabez thing was founded on real Scripture, while these are all fiction, not verifiable by Scripture, Science, or any other means.  Despite their writing skills, Dante and Milton are no better.
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline sheila

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2013, 07:05:57 PM »
  Issaih 55   Come all you who are thirsty,come to the waters;and you who have no money,come buy and eat!  Come buy wine and milk

  without cost. Why spend money on what is not bread,and your labour on what does not saatisfy?  Listen! Listen to me and eat what is good,

  and your soul will delight in the richest fare. Give ear and come to me, and hear that your soul may live. I will make an everlasting covenaant

 with you,my faithful love promised to David............v 8 for my thoughts are not your thoughts,neither are your ways my ways.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2013, 07:13:12 PM »
Think about it. How many church members believe in hell? Good market.
Doesn't pay to write a book that disagrees withy "accepted" beliefs of mainstream.

Diet books usually have "eat all you want and lose weight without exercise" They sell - that's what people want to hear
They will not say, exercise, eat 1/3 what you normally do, don't eat junk food or processed foods.
How can they make a book out of that one sentence? ...and one sentence that dieters don't want to hear. :Peace2:

 :iagree: :dsunny: It's called common sense selling for $
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline lastpost

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2013, 08:22:45 PM »
Quote
  Issaih 55   Come all you who are thirsty,come to the waters;and you who have no money,come buy and eat!  Come buy wine and milk

  without cost. Why spend money on what is not bread,and your labour on what does not saatisfy?  Listen! Listen to me and eat what is good,

  and your soul will delight in the richest fare. Give ear and come to me, and hear that your soul may live. I will make an everlasting covenaant

 with you,my faithful love promised to David............v 8 for my thoughts are not your thoughts,neither are your ways my ways.

Isaiah 56
1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near [qarowb => at hand] to pass [bow => to come], and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.


In my opinion, the prophet is used to speak the Lord's message saying blessed is he of olden times who follows the Lord's commands as salvation was close at hand even then [at that time]. This to me refers to his first death - his physical death, when, because he put into practice what the Lord had asked, he is resurrected [anastasis => a raising up, rising] in his healthy spiritual body immediately and born again into the Promised Land [these are brought to the Lord's "Holy Mountain" v.7] without delay for he shall not see a second death as he is "blessed [esher]".

9 All ye beasts of the field, come to devour, yea, all ye beasts in the forest.
10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
12 Come ye, say they , I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.


But, in my opinion, he who does evil and he who has allowed both the earthly-minded and the fallen and malevolent spirits to devour the flock by turning to the world and ignoring the danger to others thinking that they need pay heed to what the Lord asks, he will meet with a second death in which he must be purified in a refining fire before he is spiritually fit for his anastasis to occur.

It is yet another warning about, literally, a fate worse than death for those not actively seeking to follow the Lord's bidding which He has made clear over and over again - in my opinion.
"A few drops of blood renew the whole world, and become for all men that which rennet is for milk, uniting and drawing us into one". "Christ is like leaven for the entire mass, and having made that which was damned one with himself, frees the whole from damnation".

Gregory of Nazianzu

Offline rosered

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2013, 12:23:39 AM »
Quote
Isaiah 56
1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near [qarowb => at hand] to pass [bow => to come], and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

In my opinion, the prophet is used to speak the Lord's message saying blessed is he of olden times who follows the Lord's commands as salvation was close at hand even then [at that time]. This to me refers to his first death - his physical death, when, because he put into practice what the Lord had asked, he is resurrected [anastasis => a raising up, rising] in his healthy spiritual body immediately and born again into the Promised Land [these are brought to the Lord's "Holy Mountain" v.7] without delay for he shall not see a second death as he is "blessed [esher]".

9 All ye beasts of the field, come to devour, yea, all ye beasts in the forest.
10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
12 Come ye, say they , I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.

But, in my opinion, he who does evil and he who has allowed both the earthly-minded and the fallen and malevolent spirits to devour the flock by turning to the world and ignoring the danger to others thinking that they need pay heed to what the Lord asks, he will meet with a second death in which he must be purified in a refining fire before he is spiritually fit for his anastasis to occur.

It is yet another warning about, literally, a fate worse than death for those not actively seeking to follow the Lord's bidding which He has made clear over and over again - in my opinion.

  That  is how I believe it , as well 



 , Zec 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness


 Zec 13:2  And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, [that] I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land. 


 Zec 13:3   And it shall come to pass, [that] when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.  


 Zec 13:4  And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:   


Zec 13:5   But he shall say, I [am] no prophet, I [am] an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth. 


 Zec 13:6   And [one] shall say unto him, What [are] these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, [Those] with which I was wounded [in] the house of my friends.   



Zec 13:7  Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man [that is] my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. 


 Zec 13:8   And it shall come to pass, [that] in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off [and] die; but the third shall be left therein


 Zec 13:9   And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It [is] my people: and they shall say, The LORD [is] my God.
 

  I think of Pauls witness  about the fire and suffing loss / harm   , but shall be saved as by fire  1Cr 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Offline sheila

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2013, 12:27:17 AM »
and this is God's true judgement...He bound all up in sin...sin entered through one man and thus all men become sinners, and through one man

 the free gift of righteousness through Christ is given.  Thus all bear the image of the corrupt one..and so too,shall all men bear the image of

 the incorrupt one[the firstborn from the dead]  THI IS GOD'S JUDGEMENT NOT MAN'S....nor is it a cheating pair of scales,which God detests...

 . No flesh shall boast. The salvation of ALL MEN is THE VERY GLORY OF GOD. The stione not cut out by human hands..is the WORK OF THE LORD.

  Another thing..it never entered God's heart to burn His children in fire..He detested Molech worship at Ben Hinnom....

   
  Grace is like a woman who hid three measures of leaavening in a bowl,til all the flour was leavened.  First He showed undeserved favour to Israel..

 when their flesh failed...He showed undeserved grace unto the gentiles.. Daniel prophesied the saints were overcom...thus christendom overcome

 with babylonish teachings and doctrines of demons. Note the uncovering of christendoms nakedness..expose of all corruption in christendom

 since the 80's. God allows this to happen for the good of all...and extends Grace[third measure] unto the sinners of the people all men......

  if sin abound grace abounds even more....for love is as strong as death.


   there will be no boasting..even of the saints before God..........a man is much better off beating His chest pleading for mercy of God..then

saying...'I do thus and thus..I'm so glad I'm not like so and so"..."  God detests the proud but gives undeserved mercy to the humbled.

    we have all been humbled in this natural flesh with sin..............done things formerly that we are ashamed of...and struggle daily


         Is it justice to curse the demon possessed? I didn't see Jesus blaming the demon possessed for their possession...He came to set

  the oppressed free. He cast them out......'satan won't let go" part of God hardening him before his complete destruction. Jesus appears again

 seperate/apart from sin..at the judgement when He seperates the people..and sends the goats[evil spirits] to the LOF..it is appointed for all men to die

 ONCE...

 and then the resurrection/judgement..so all men will expierence a first resurrection...and happy and holy are those who have the first resurrection..

 for they shall not be harmed of the secound death[it never entered His heart to burn His children in fire]


   there are 'certain' ones who know about the time of torment that is coming their way..they asked Him if He had come to torment them before

 the appointed time. At the present time satan knows his time is short and demonic madness increases[watch the news]


    the world has failed to recognize the magnitude of what was done on the cross for mankind..and what it means. That was a legal judgement

 of God's Court[the Court sit]   Men judge by the appearance of the eyes.  God's grace has been hard fought against . First the offspring of

vipers on the religious leaders in Jesus day..fought against this forgiveness of sins to man...because they do not know Him...Love keeps no

account of the injury[sin].  When will mankind hear that God loves them..even when caaught in the act of sin[see adulterous women]


  do you not know Him yet?  What did He do for the adulterous woman caught in the act..what did He say to those who would judge her under law?

  ...did He not show His nature..and that all men are bound up in sin? does He not instruct  judge no man? Then why do people read into these

scriptures such things. Are we under law or grace?


   do you not know that the mere fact of sin in our flesh is an act of spiritual adultery against God and Christ? Or that we were all constituted sinners?

   yes, He told the woman..go and sin no more,less a worst fate befall you...and what is that worst fate? all other sins a man commit is outside his body

 but fornication/adultery you sin against your own body.  what does this mean? it means sins law comes into effect..and is a sin unto death..

and that satan can and does take you into possesion[turn such a one as this over to satan for the destruction of the flesh,that the spirit may be saved

 on the day of the Lord.] In other words,if she repeated the adultery..sins law would enable satan to kill her.   those who know better get many stripes..


  God's judgement is that way with His children.....the fate worse then death is addressed with the locust stings as scorpions...people prayed for death..

so there you have your fate worse then death[think of Job]think of men going mad on killing sprees and gunned down for it....asking for death,death

 by police] 

   if men die once and then are resurrected..that is the first resurrection[men appointed to die once under laaw; law fulfilledand happy and Holy are they

 when they appear before God's judgement seat..where they receive the free gift of righteousness]


    THEN THE JUDGEMENT....AND GOD HAS JUDGED THAT AS ALL MEN HAVE DIED THROUGH SIN ENTERING ONE MAN...SO TOO SHALL ALL MEN

RECEIVE THE FREE GIFT THROUGH THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF ONE MAN.........THE PATTERN SON...THE FIRSTBORN OF THE DEAD...

 who shall and does seperate them from sin unto Himself..bought with HIS BLOOD.

Offline rosered

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2013, 02:45:31 AM »
   Dear sis , I do think there will be a   refining fire of Gods doing , but God does not send them there,  they do it of themselves , being partakers   and rejecting the VOICE OF GODS CALLING SON
 

  that may be where we   are at odds Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus and for proclaiming the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their forehead or their hands. They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 


 Rev 20:5 This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.) 


 Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years. 


 Rev 20:7 When the thousand years come to an end, Satan will be let out of his prison. 


 Rev 20:8 He will go out to deceive the nations—called Gog and Magog—in every corner of the earth. He will gather them together for battle—a mighty army, as numberless as sand along the seashore. 


 Rev 20:9 And I saw them as they went up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded God's people and the beloved city. But fire from heaven came down on the attacking armies and consumed them. 


 Rev 20:10 Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. 


 Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne and the one sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide. 


 Rev 20:12 I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God's throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. 


 Rev 20:13 The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave [fn] gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. 


 Rev 20:14 Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. 


 Rev 20:15 And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire. 



Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a huge crowd of witnesses to the life of faith, let us strip off every weight that slows us down, especially the sin that so easily trips us up. And let us run with endurance the race God has set before us. 


 Hbr 12:2 We do this by keeping our eyes on Jesus, the champion who initiates and perfects our faith. [fn] Because of the joy [fn] awaiting him, he endured the cross, disregarding its shame. Now he is seated in the place of honor beside God's throne. 


 Hbr 12:3 Think of all the hostility he endured from sinful people; [fn] then you won't become weary and give up. 


 Hbr 12:4 After all, you have not yet given your lives in your struggle against sin. 


 Hbr 12:5 And have you forgotten the encouraging words God spoke to you as his children? [fn] He said, "My child, [fn] don't make light of the LORD's discipline, and don't give up when he corrects you. 


 Hbr 12:6 For the LORD disciplines those he loves, and he punishes each one he accepts as his child." [fn] 


 Hbr 12:7 As you endure this divine discipline, remember that God is treating you as his own children. Who ever heard of a child who is never disciplined by its father? 


 Hbr 12:8 If God doesn't discipline you as he does all of his children, it means that you are illegitimate and are not really his children at all. 


 Hbr 12:9 Since we respected our earthly fathers who disciplined us, shouldn't we submit even more to the discipline of the Father of our spirits, and live forever? [fn] 


 Hbr 12:10 For our earthly fathers disciplined us for a few years, doing the best they knew how. But God's discipline is always good for us, so that we might share in his holiness. 


 Hbr 12:11 No discipline is enjoyable while it is happening—it's painful! But afterward there will be a peaceful harvest of right living for those who are trained in this way. 


 Hbr 12:12 So take a new grip with your tired hands and strengthen your weak knees. 


 Hbr 12:13 Mark out a straight path for your feet so that those who are weak and lame will not fall but become strong. 


 Hbr 12:14 Work at living in peace with everyone, and work at living a holy life, for those who are not holy will not see the Lord.  


 Hbr 12:15 Look after each other so that none of you fails to receive the grace of God. Watch out that no poisonous root of bitterness grows up to trouble you, corrupting many. 


 Hbr 12:16 Make sure that no one is immoral or godless like Esau, who traded his birthright as the firstborn son for a single meal. 


 Hbr 12:17 You know that afterward, when he wanted his father's blessing, he was rejected. It was too late for repentance, even though he begged with bitter tears. 


 Hbr 12:18 You have not come to a physical mountain, [fn] to a place of flaming fire, darkness, gloom, and whirlwind, as the Israelites did at Mount Sinai.    Hbr 12:19 For they heard an awesome trumpet blast and a voice so terrible that they begged God to stop speaking. 


 Hbr 12:20 They staggered back under God's command: "If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned to death." [fn] 


 Hbr 12:21 Moses himself was so frightened at the sight that he said, "I am terrified and trembling." [fn] 


 Hbr 12:22 No, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to countless thousands of angels in a joyful gathering. 


 Hbr 12:23 You have come to the assembly of God's firstborn children, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God himself, who is the judge over all things. You have come to the spirits of the righteous ones in heaven who have now been made perfect.    Hbr 12:24 You have come to Jesus, the one who mediates the new covenant between God and people, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks of forgiveness instead of crying out for vengeance like the blood of Abel. 


 Hbr 12:25 Be careful that you do not refuse to listen to the One who is speaking. For if the people of Israel did not escape when they refused to listen to Moses, the earthly messenger, we will certainly not escape if we reject the One who speaks to us from heaven! 

 Hbr 12:26 When God spoke from Mount Sinai his voice shook the earth, but now he makes another promise: "Once again I will shake not only the earth but the heavens also." [fn] 


 Hbr 12:27 This means that all of creation will be shaken and removed, so that only unshakable things will remain. 


 Hbr 12:28 Since we are receiving a Kingdom that is unshakable, let us be thankful and please God by worshiping him with holy fear and awe. 
   A warning  to not reject His voice   nor harden our hearts against Him  , as we come to  rest in Him and not be  vexed and harmed  by the fires of refining  and buring out  the  evil
 
  that was all I was seeing in  wayfarings post
 

Offline sheila

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2013, 06:08:27 AM »
Psalms 29;3-11

   THE VOICE OF THE LORD IS OVER THE WATERS;THE GOD OF GLORY THUNDERS,THE LORD THUNDERS OVER THE MIGHTY WATERS

  THE VOICE OF THE LORD IS POWERFUL;THE VOICE OF THE LORD IS MAJESTIC

  THE VOICE OF THE LORD BREAKS THE CEDARS THE LORD BREAKS IN PIECES THE THE CEDARS IN LEBANAN

  HE MAKES LEBAANON SKIP LIKE A CALF SIRION LIKE A YOUNG WILD OX

  THE VOICE OF THE LORD STRIKES WITH FLASHES OF LIGHTENING

  THE VOICE OF THE LORD SHAKES THE DESERT THE LORD SHAKES THE DESERT OF KADESH

   THE VOICE OF THE LORD TWISTS THE OAKS AND STRIPS THE FOREST BARE

   AND IN HIS TEMPLE ALL CRY 'GLORY!' THE LORD SITS ENTHRONED OVER THE FLOOD

  THE LORD IS ENTHRONED AS KING FOREVER

 THE LORD GIVES STRENGTH TO HIS PEOPLE

 THE LORD BLESSES HIS PEOPLE WITH PEACE

Offline sheila

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2013, 06:27:50 AM »
jEREMIAH 50;33  THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL ARE OPPRESSED AND THE PEOPLE OF JUDAH AS WELL

 ALL THEIR CAPTORS HOLD THEM FAST REFUSING TO LET THEM GO YET THEIR REDEEMER IS STRONG

 THE LORD ALMIGHTY IS HIS NAME HE WILL VIGOURSLY DEFEND THEIR CAUSE

 SO THAT HE MAY BRING REST TO THEIR LAND

BUT UNREST TO THOSE WHO LIVE IN BABYLON.


V 44 LIKE A LION COMING UP FROM JORDANS THICKETS TO A RICH PASTURELAND, I WILL CHASE BABYLON FROM HER LAND

  IN AN INSTANT.  WHO IS THE CHOSEN ONE I WILL APPOINT FOR THIS?

 WHO IS LIKE ME AND WHO CAAN CHALLENGE ME? AND WHT SHEPHERD CAN STAND AGAINST ME?


 CH 51 HE STIRS UP THE SPIRIT OF A DESTROYER AGAINST BABYLON......V5 FOR ISRAEL AAND JUDAH HAVE NOT BEEN FORSAAKEN

BY THEIR GOD, THE LORD ALMIGHTY, THOUGH THEIR LAND IS FULL OF GUILT BEFORE THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL

 


Offline sheila

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2013, 04:59:38 PM »
Look!  Isaiah 33    v 10  Now will I arise,now will I beexalted,now will I be lifted up.  You conceive chaff you give birth to straw

 your breath is a fire that consumes you[dragon breath] The people will be burned as if to lime,like cut thornbushes they will be set ablaze

  [He is speaking of removing tares/lying doctrines/false religion ideas..evil spirits removed...and burning them in the LOF..thus the refining]

   who of us can dwell with the consuming fire? v 15-17.......

      19 Youwill see those arrogant people no more..those people with an obscure incomprehensible speec/tongueh[babble-on]

     v 20   the security and peace of the Holy city........

   v 22  FOR THE LORD IS OUR JUDGE [see God's judgement..all men bore image of corrupt one/condemned to death for sin in fleshOld man

   and all shall bear the imaage of the incorruptible one/declared righteous through Christ and raised up in HIM/New creature

   , THE LORD IS OUR LAWGIVER  [Ezekiel 20; 30 JUDGEMENT THEN RESTORATION]  THE LORD IS OUR KING,IT IS HE WHO WILL SAVE US

Offline lomarah

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2013, 05:15:00 PM »
Amen and praise the Lord!!!  :dsunny:
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline sheila

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2013, 06:13:13 PM »
ok....how is this 'your breath is a fire that consumes you" how does it consume us?  of God it say's because of His Great Love we are not consumed?

     whom the Lord will do away with at the breath of His coming[man of lawlessness/man of sin]

   Our God is a consuming fire...and it is written 'satan himself will suceed in calling down fire from heaven"   when the adversary suceeds in misleading

  all the nations to fight against the camp of the Holy City which God loves...and surrounds it[ when the wicked encompass the righteous,therefore,true

 judgement does not go forth...fire comes down from heaaven and devoured them.


   yes Rose..they do it to themselves when they reject God's judgements for carnal babylon doctrines[beast mark of which man can not live]

   when people refuse the free gift.. the  faavour of what He has judged...and a beast touches the mountain..he can not live..and is thrown

 into the LOF.    Psalms 74;19   do not hand over the life of your dove to wild beasts.   Rise up,O'God and defend your caause....
.

   when we judge a man of what is done and not done in the flesh...as a criteria for salvation..we condemn ourselves and can not live.[laaw].

 for as ye judge so shall ye be judged.   therefore people of the[beast] mind that LOF is needed to refine..show that they are still in need of refinement

and carnal understandings need to yet be removed from them...for we live by grace alone

   for when the books are opened and each man is judged by what is done in the flesh...there is the condemnation of all men bearing the corrupt image

 and the free gift of Grace that all men shall be raised in Christ..the incorrupt image[wheat and tares]  the old man and the new man

   beastly mis- understandings/doctrines that bring death..are thrown into the LOF and consumed.


   what you bind on earth is bound in heaven...when the beast is captured and thrown into the LOF on earth..so,too, in Heaven...and when satan is

 abyssed in the earth[the accusor of the brethern] so,too,in heaven

   

 

Offline lomarah

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2013, 06:49:18 PM »
Quote
when we judge a man of what is done and not done in the flesh...as a criteria for salvation..we condemn ourselves and can not live.[law].

 for as ye judge so shall ye be judged.   therefore people of the[beast] mind that LOF is needed to refine..show that they are still in need of refinement

and carnal understandings need to yet be removed from them...for we live by grace alone

   for when the books are opened and each man is judged by what is done in the flesh...there is the condemnation of all men bearing the corrupt image

 and the free gift of Grace that all men shall be raised in Christ..the incorrupt image[wheat and tares]  the old man and the new man

   beastly mis- understandings/doctrines that bring death..are thrown into the LOF and consumed.

Awesome.  :cloud9: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline rosered

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2013, 08:43:22 PM »
 
 
 Hi sis , not ignoring you , just been  looking like crazy in how to write this  , I stink at writing  down my thoughts ,  as you well know already  ..
 I love what you have already up and agree  ,
  But I would love to explain what  seems to be a BIG misunderstanding when I agreed with Lastposts     , last post up there    :laughing7:
Quote
9 All ye beasts of the field, come to devour, yea, all ye beasts in the forest.
10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
12 Come ye, say they , I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.

But, in my opinion, he who does evil and he who has allowed both the earthly-minded and the fallen and malevolent spirits to devour the flock by turning to the world and ignoring the danger to others thinking that they need pay heed to what the Lord asks, he will meet with a second death in which he must be purified in a refining fire before he is spiritually fit for his anastasis to occur.

It is yet another warning about, literally, a fate worse than death for those not actively seeking to follow the Lord's bidding which He has made clear over and over again - in my opinion.


Definition. a raising up, rising (e.g. from a seat); a rising from the dead. that of Christ; that of all men at the end of this present age
 
 Ok  here we go ,,,   this is what the Lord is been showing me   , in the scripts ,
 I want to go back to Daniels   dream   first in Dan 7   , those  4 beasts in natures and carnality as  [ Kings and Kingdoms  ]      Daniel watched as the thones  were put in place   and the Ancient one sat  down  to judge    in verse 8 -11   all the fire  was coming  out of Him  , God is a consuming Fire   in streams    this is the   the Holy Ghost and fire    judments  on all mankind
  because of What Jesus Christ   did at the cross , this was  the Holy Ghost and fire baptism  that Jesus come to send  on the earth in Luke    12 ;49 , this is not a literal fire but   the fire of Gods judgments [those fiery trials    to test us poured out on all flesh [pentacost [first sign of this   after Jesus ressurrection ]  and Daniel saw this  before as Prophecy having the Spirit of prophecy  or the testimony of Jesus Christ in Him declaring this before it happens .I watched until thrones were set up
    and the Ancient One, who has lived for endless years, sat down.
        His clothes were as white as snow
            and the hair on his head was like pure wool.
        His throne was fiery flames,
            and its wheels were burning fire.
10 A river of fire flowed.
    It came from him.
        Thousands and thousands served him.
        Ten thousand times ten thousand were stationed in front of him.
    The court convened,
    and the books were opened.

11 I continued to watch because of the impressive words that the horn was speaking. I watched until the animal was killed. Its body was destroyed and put into a raging fire. 12 The power of the rest of the animals was taken away, but they were allowed to live for a period of time.13 In my visions during the night, I saw among the clouds in heaven someone like the Son of Man.[a] He came to the Ancient One, who has lived for endless years, and was presented to him. 14 He was given power, honor, and a kingdom. People from every province, nation, and language were to serve him. His power is an eternal power that will not be taken away. His kingdom will never be destroyed.
 
     Verse 13 and 14 are right now !!    and still to this day    in verse 11 if you take this  inwardly and personally   , as the Kingdom of God is within you and you are the temple of the Living God and Judgment begins in the house of God    , than you are  going to KNOW exactly what I am going to say next 

 Saul / Paul   is going to be my greatest example here to explain     what Jesus spoke in parables , Paul not only experienced these things  but put plainly   just what is happining to  us as well
  not everyone here will   experince salvation here   in this  life   for this short time  , just  the few  chosen out of the world   as Saul was   and all the  prophets   and kings etc  written in the "books "   
now dont get upset , with what I am fixing to say here and just said , only because its a truth  spoken not by me , But the WORD OF GOD ,    all will be saved  , but not in this short  lifetime  of the days of our flesh   
 Here is what the Lord blessed me to understand ,  why ??   because I am personally going though the firey trials  and the flames of judgments   now in my own body of death , as we all are  going though , but the Holy Spirit is with us as we endure the chastening of the Lord to be recieved as sons of God  , its 1Peter Chapter 4     that proves to me   , that salvation , to the saving of ones   , mind and heart  / soul     and the body of death  is not   delivered   to salvation , but is SWALLOWED UP/ devour and destroy .   in Victory  ,
 
  Paul helped so much in Romans 7 and 8 , to show this  proof to me  on a personal level
 He had the mind of Christ , this is heaven  or the realm of   being sealed  by the Holy Spirit and fire  already in Gods presence  seated with Christ in heavenly places  ,
 But Paul offered up even more by saying    sin was still dwelling in his flesh  ,    the man of sin was still   in there and doing those things in HIS EARTH     that does not please GOD [woe unto you  earth and sea  the devil has come down to you ! ]no longer a threat in your mind and heart its Christ possesion as he rules and regins in power over  and with you   to keep that wicked one  in the lower regions of your body and is burning in that fire  of torment after the seals are broken and the trumpets are  sounding and the bowels are poured out  on the beast , false prophet are  found  ,  and he said this  also  though I give my body to be burned [  over to Christ to devour and  destroy by the fires of Gods divine judgements  and trials of faith in suffering   for the cause of Christ ] and have not love ,
  it profits him nothing  , he knew !!

 1Peter   4     was where I realized   the parable and prophecy  Spirit of divine Truth explains  , its the seed / Word of God falling on the ground to die and   make new life / His , being gathered in Christ now     , but many as there are 3 examples of how this  works  in our hearts ,  as good soil or earth , the meek shall inherit the earth  ,      the troubles of this life and riches cause this seed to  be choked  out ,  with tares and  must be burned  , and the snatchers  birds of the air as satan  enters their hearts  [examples Judas , Anninas and saphariah ]    Peter even when he was turned over to satan  and sifted as wheat  and the Lord said  get behind me satan , you are not tasting the things of God but men

  a big clue also for me was this  ,  turn one over to satan for the destruction of his flesh  that in the DAY of Salvation he might be saved   
  now   to why  1 Peter  4 shows me how easy it is  , to loose the peace and joy and  abundant Life here and now  which is total salvation in Christ , its a 3 part work of    being blameless  before Christ   while we  have mortal bodies that are undergoing   death , destruction and devouring still as the Fire of Gods Spirit and jealousy  is still    working to save  you to complete  maturity  in Christ
 1 Peter 4
GOD'S WORD Translation (GW)

4 Since Christ has suffered physically, take the same attitude that he had. (A person who has suffered physically no longer sins.)


 2 That way you won't be guided by sinful human desires as you live the rest of your lives on earth. Instead, you will be guided by what God wants you to do.


3 You spent enough time in the past doing what unbelievers like to do. You were promiscuous, had sinful desires, got drunk, went to wild parties, and took part in the forbidden worship of false gods. 4 Unbelievers insult you now because they are surprised that you no longer join them in the same excesses of wild living.

5 They will give an account to the one who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6 After all, the Good News was told to people like that, although they are now dead.


It was told to them so that they could be judged like humans in their earthly lives and live to God in their spiritual lives.


1Pe 4:6   For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit
  God of the Living !   not the dead , its  in Christ we are lifted up


7 The end of everything is near. Therefore, practice self-control, and keep your minds clear so that you can pray. 8 Above all, love each other warmly, because love covers many sins. 9 Welcome each other as guests without complaining.

 10 Each of you as a good manager must use the gift that God has given you to serve others.


 11 Whoever speaks must speak God's words. Whoever serves must serve with the strength God supplies so that in every way God receives glory through Jesus Christ. Glory and power belong to Jesus Christ forever and ever! Amen
.

Share Christ's Sufferings

 
 
15 If you suffer, you shouldn't suffer for being a murderer, thief, criminal, or troublemaker. 16 If you suffer for being a Christian, don't feel ashamed, but praise God for being called that name.


 17 The time has come for the judgment to begin, and it will begin with God's family. If it starts with us, what will be the end for those who refuse to obey the Good News of God? 18 If it's hard for the person who has God's approval to be saved, what will happen to the godless sinner? 19 Those who suffer because that is God's will for them must entrust themselves to a faithful creator and continue to do what is good.

   verse 18 when you have Gods   SEAL of approval in your mind , mind of Christ and still be saved is hard pressed !!!     salvation , must be the  life abundant  fully in Christ and few be there that find the strait and narrow path   that leads to Life  of and IN CHRIST  totally
  I know Iam not there 
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 08:54:03 PM by rosered »

Offline lastpost

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2013, 10:33:51 PM »
The Holy and Sacred Record is so revealing. Thank you.

1 Peter 4
7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

From my point of view, this could not be a plainer indication as to where everything is pointing concerning "sinning".

"But the end [telos] of all things [pas] is at hand [eggizo]"

telos => the end, termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be
pas => all things (i) individually, each, (ii) collectively
eggizo => is at hand, draws near

The end of the individual's life is at hand. This was said around two millennia ago. Could it be plainer? The end drew near for people living then (each person's individual physical death). If "the end of all things" was not drawing near then [at that time] then surely Peter would have said that "the end [telos] of all things [pas]" is not until at least two thousand years in the future (which is so far removed from being "close at hand" that there cannot be any doubt as to what he meant). Each day brings that inevitable end nearer, so be more and more spiritual and "sober" and "prayerful".

We are told in the next line why all of this increased spirituality is essential ("above all things":

"...above all things have fervent charitable love [agape] among yourselves: for charitable love shall cover the multitude of sins."

The great change has taken place when the conscious decision was taken to accept Jesus Christ's love shown on the Cross. Yet, as the New Testament shows, we have seen that people who have accepted Christ still become involved in sinful activities. We can (choose to) ignore this by introducing an alternate philosophy, and many do, but it is not a good idea. However, we can prevent committing "the multitude of sins" by practising "charitable love" in its place.

This simplicity is what God intends to be available to all - it is their right. And I know one day it shall be so, thank you GOD.
"A few drops of blood renew the whole world, and become for all men that which rennet is for milk, uniting and drawing us into one". "Christ is like leaven for the entire mass, and having made that which was damned one with himself, frees the whole from damnation".

Gregory of Nazianzu

Offline dajomaco

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2013, 12:36:01 AM »
Who is the greatest and most fearsome enemy of God ?

Matthew 5) 44

Offline lastpost

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2013, 01:15:03 AM »
An interesting question dajomaco. Fearsome to who?

In my view, that which causes pain to the Heart of the God who is Love is His enemy (greatest or otherwise) regardless of any name or single entity.

But I dare to say that from God's point of view regarding His children who wander around in darkness and spiritual ignorance that that which drags them down into an evil state is His enemy (greatest or otherwise).

But perhaps these two are the same.

However, I believe that even if a little child has Jesus in her heart then she is greater than all evil amassed together.

And the one who has perfect faith in the God who is Love will have no fear and so a fearsome enemy ceases to have meaning.
"A few drops of blood renew the whole world, and become for all men that which rennet is for milk, uniting and drawing us into one". "Christ is like leaven for the entire mass, and having made that which was damned one with himself, frees the whole from damnation".

Gregory of Nazianzu

Offline dajomaco

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2013, 02:03:42 AM »
I get a vague sense that if God could have an enemy.
It would be a vessel filled with love that did not over flow.
Sort of putting a governor on the distribution of God's love. 

Offline lastpost

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2013, 05:08:17 PM »
Dear dajomaco, an interesting point, such a subtle enemy!
"A few drops of blood renew the whole world, and become for all men that which rennet is for milk, uniting and drawing us into one". "Christ is like leaven for the entire mass, and having made that which was damned one with himself, frees the whole from damnation".

Gregory of Nazianzu

Offline micah7:9

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2013, 06:07:03 PM »
I get a vague sense that if God could have an enemy.
It would be a vessel filled with love that did not over flow.
Sort of putting a governor on the distribution of God's love.

I really like that and it is very true. I was asked once which is better to be full or empty, I answered empty.... just poured and ready to be filled. :HeartThrob: :dsunny:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline rosered

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Re: "Saint" John Bosco's Vision of Hell
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2013, 06:30:58 PM »


  Thank you friends ,lastpost  dajomaco  Michah.
  Amen , let it be so !!!
  the LOVE  OF GOD  IS Jesus Christ blood that flows love in us and to us  and covers the mulititudes  of  sin , what a Cross  of Jesus Christ to redeem us to Himself    that we  might carry that  same life giving blood still  flowing/poured   out  to others !as His vessels of mercy !
  we must eat His body / Christ Church    and drink His blood that we have Life in us !   this transports and is carried to others    though the Holy Work  of Gods Spirit  , we are than in tune with Gods desire and will  that all be saved   by the Name Jesus Christ which is the seal on your forhead / the mind of Christ and your body is  His vessel !!
 

 makes these scriptures even more  alive    and Living   does it not ?

 Rom 9:21 Has not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Paul    was giving us this   example in Romans 7 of the same lump     two vessels    sown in corruption and RASIED IN GLORY  !!! !!His mind  was to please and honor God and His body of death was still  dishonoring !SO we dont give up  in Hope of Glory  , the Christy in you still doing the Living works     and the body of death still working the dead works ,   till it is  no longer   able to rise up in Him as the Lord  destoys it with the breath of His coming  , His breath is a fire , Holy Spirit and fire   as we strive to  overcome  and keep  praying for Christ  to increase   and less of  self

1Th 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, [and] prepared unto every good work.

Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:  

Act 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Act 10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.


Act 11:5 I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me
We thank Him for  helping us to  become Like Him   and be apart of Him !! WOWZA!! :HeartThrob: