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Offline anti_nietzsche

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hebrews 10:29
« on: July 01, 2008, 09:17:16 PM »
How do you reconcile the teaching of hebrews 10 with UR? This is a big obstacle for me right now.
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Michele

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Re: hebrews 10:29
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2008, 09:56:07 PM »
Hey Daniel...for me...those scriptures speak about what happens when we turn our back on God.  If we turn our back on Him......how can He help us?

But there is still Love.......Love never fails.  I think the story of the Prodigal Son is a great example.  There is most certainly great suffering when we leave our Father, and I suppose that's as it should be, but this does not mean that God can't draw us back to Himself when we are ready.  I do not believe that the door is ever permanently closed for reconciliation.  The Father is always waiting for the Son to return home. :HeartThrob:
« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 11:34:02 PM by StainedGlass »
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Offline bobf

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Re: hebrews 10:29
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2008, 11:38:40 PM »
Quote from: anti_nietzsche on July 01, 2008, 09:17:16 PM
How do you reconcile the teaching of hebrews 10 with UR? This is a big obstacle for me right now.

Hi anti_nietzsche,

Those verses teach that we reap what we sow, but they are not anti-UR.

Hebrews 10:29  Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30  For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31  It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

So when God says "Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense" and "The Lord shall judge his people" is God talking about eternal punishment?

Let's go read the OT verses being quoted and see.

Deuteronomy 32:35 To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste. 36 For the LORD shall judge his people and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left.

Once again the scriptures confirm that God will cast off, but not forever.

Bob



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Offline willieH

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Re: hebrews 10:29
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2008, 02:55:51 AM »
willieH: Hi A_N... :hithere:

 :welcome:

Quote from: anti_nietzsche on July 01, 2008, 09:17:16 PM
How do you reconcile the teaching of hebrews 10 with UR? This is a big obstacle for me right now.

Sorry  A_N... but FEAR is NOT a part of the GOSPEL...

This is what the SPIRIT says:

1 John 4:18  There is NO FEAR in LOVE... but PERFECT LOVE ...casteth OUT fear... because FEAR hath TORMENT... He that FEARETH is NOT MADE perfect [complete] in LOVE...

The FIRE of GOD... is not to be FEARED as in "afraid"... it is to be FEARED as in "RESPECTED"... there IS a BIG difference...

If one has no RESPECT for the FIRE of GOD... by continuing to ignore His commands... then the FIRE shall eliminate his WORK, but SHALL SAVE him BY that FIRE... (1 Cor 3:11-15)

Look closer A_N, ...Hebrews 10 does not teach that SALVATION is eliminated now does it?  Where is this stated?

It proposes that JUDGMENT and FIERY indignation is to be (Heb 10:27), but what is the end result of that? (Is 26:9)

Do we not search the Scripture to interpret for us that result? Such as I have already mentioned?  (1 Cor 3:11-15)

We are not the adversaries of GOD... our SIN is His adversary...  :dontknow:

GOD's wrath is against the UNGODLINESS and UNRIGHTEOUSNESS ...of... MEN... not against the MEN themselves! (Rom 1:18) 

He LOVES ALL MEN ...A_N, without favoring one over the other (Acts 10:34 / Rom 2:11 / Gal 2:6 / Eph 6:9 / Job 34:19) ...we are the prize which CHRIST... has RESTORED!

WE are the objects of HIS LOVE for which He sent HIS SON to redeem A_N!   :trampoline: :banana: :myahoo:

And there is NO PAYMENT which ANY MAN can either offer or provide, which shall establish ATONEMENT, nor RESTORE us to GOD... Only the SALVATION provided through CHRIST can do this for us...

Do you think for a moment that your actions are a determining factor in your Salvation?  If this is so, ...then works of men are that which obtains Salvation...  :thumbdown:  Which proposal finds itself contrary to Eph 2:8-10

That IS NOT what Scripture notes... Only CHRIST can make such a restortation... And it IS, ...HIS WORK to do so... and He stated that ALL shall benefit of that work (John 12:32)

JESUS was noted as the Lamb which TAKETH AWAY the SIN of the WORLD... (John 1:29)  He also said that "It IS FINISHED"... (John 19:30) 

What was finished?  :JCThink:  Was it not HIS ...WORK?  :scratchhead: What He CAME to DO?  :dontknow:  ...To SEEK and to SAVE that which was LOST? (Luke 19:10)

There are 2 aspects of CHRIST's work... one was to COVER sin in those which were ordained to walk in His footsteps in this dark world... (Eph 2:10) 

The other, and most important, was to SAVE those which were LOST... which includes ALL... for ALL have sinned and come short of the GLORY of GOD... (Rom 3:23), and are therefore in NEED of Him...

(CHRIST is found to be a COVERING of SIN from the exposure of SHAME before the LIGHT of YHVH)  (Rev 3:18)

GOD notes that we must FORGIVE our ENEMIES... and in the SPIRITUAL vision of this command, we thereby make FRIENDS of them THROUGH FORGIVENESS... do you not see this?

If THIS is the manner in which WE are COMMANDED to conduct ourselves concerning enemies... then HOW shall GOD deal with His? By TORMENTING THEM?
By KILLING THEM?  What's your take?  :scratchhead:

How do YOU picture UNCONDITIONAL LOVE, as dealing with those which it LOVES?

If we picture GOD as a cosmic BULLY which is INFINITE in POWER, and yet, stoops to "beating up" on CLAY which HE CREATED, and which HE has given the ability to TRANSGRESS... what kind of "mental case" have we thereby made of GOD?

Don't know of your life experiences A_N, but as a father of 3, Grandfather of 9 (almost 10), husband of 32 years... my experience with LOVE, is that these I have just listed are IMPORTANT to a degree of SELFLESS dedication to them...

Nothing they shall or can do... shall detemine my LOVE for them... My LOVE for them is that they are precious beyond price or deed...  :dontknow:

Hebrews 10 does not refute UR in any way... for UR is the naming of SALVATION for ALL, and Hebrews 10 says absolutely NOTHING about eliminating any from Salvation.  :dunno:

If it does, please NAME the verse within Hebrews 10 that says so...  :dontknow:

And if you cannot name this verse, then what's the problem?  :JCThink:

pEaCe...
...willieH  :laughing7:
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Offline studier

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Re: hebrews 10:29
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2008, 08:44:52 AM »
Read it in the original Greek, and notice there are words missing, and it doesn't say what the English translation says. It is weird, one of the few places in Scripture where the English translation says more than the Greek.
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Offline anti_nietzsche

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Re: hebrews 10:29
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2008, 06:07:49 PM »
Could ya give me a literal translation of the greek? I have no experience at all in greek or hebrew. It would be nice if you could help me with this.
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