Gary under attack

[WhiteWings]

Scriptural Refutation of "213 Brainless Questions Without Answers" by Gary Spamereault

Below, is a list of 213 questions that will help to clarify God's plan of salvation as set forth in the Holy Bible, so that when questions are asked, correct answers can be given. To those holding a limited view of God's plan of salvation, they are truly Questions Without Answers, but, to those who rely on God's Word, the answers become apparent as His truth is revealed to them.
The questions were written by A. C. Thomas and appeared in a book by E. H. Lake, entitled "The Key to Truth".

Now the Questions:

Gary: http://www.tentmaker.org/books/QuestionsWithoutAnswers.html
Debunker: http://www.1john57.com/213refutations.htm

Answers: http://www.tentmaker.org/contending.htm

[WhiteWings]

Black is Gary. Red is the refuter. Black is me trying to refute the refuter..
1. As we are required to love our enemies, may we not safely infer that God loves His enemies? (Matt. 5:44)   Only those saved by the blood of Jesus Christ can truly indeed love His enemies.  Apart from Jesus Christ, we can do nothing. (John 15:5)
The answer avoids the question. Is God not capable doing anything without Jesus....?
2.If God loves His enemies, will He punish them more than will be for their good?  God's love for every single created being does not save, for all have sinned (Romans 3:10, 3:23) and all have fallen short of the glory of God.  God righteously punishes those that refused the free gift of salvation for they have no excuse (Romans 1:20).  Because they can choose between good and evil(2Peter 2:10).  Self-willed means self-willed against God's will(2Peter2:10).  When a Christian sins, is this God's will or Man's will?
AFAIK UR doesn't claim God let sins go unpunished. They are corrective, effective and therefore ending.
3 and many others: See 2
Most questions are about that UR doesn't know punishment.
Does divine justice demand the infliction of pain from which mercy recoils? Yes.  For the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23).  Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth,  that shall he also reap.
But where does it say that the punishment goes on forever?

If the demands of divine justice are opposed to the requirements of mercy, is not God divided against Himself?  Ridiculous question!  God did not sin, man did.  When man sinned, death entered in by sin(Romans 5:12).   Mankind has a problem with death, God does not for only God is immortal and incorruptible (1Tim 6:16, 1:17).  Man is mortal and corruptible (1Cor 15:42-54).  God must punish all presence of sin because there is no darkness in God whatsoever.  If anyone rejects the only perfect sacrifice paid on the cross by Jesus Christ, there remains no other sacrifice for sin (Hebrews 10:26).  Time does not wash away sin, nor does punishment, nor does paying with money.  Only the blood of Jesus Christ and there is no other name given (Acts 4:12).
The question is not about man but about God....
If God CAN save all men, but WILL NOT, is He infinite in goodness?  Yes, all of God's attributes are infinite.  It is the sin of mankind that is not good.  God cannot be a part of any sin whatsoever.  God does not force salvation unto all creation.  God did not force Lucifer to fall from heaven, it was Lucifer HIMSELF (Ezekiel 28:17) that corrupted himself.  Not God.  Likewise with Adam and Eve.  Both were created in perfection, completely immortal until they chose to sin which brought forth death.
Adam, Eve and Lucifer weren't perfect. If they where they wouldn't have the possiblity of sin in them. Just like God.

[rosered]

 wow WW  !!
 
  THIS is intense  bro  !     I can  get alot out of it ! 
 
     Only God/Jesus Christ  saves us and How  can we be saved without 
 Him ?  even the Lord gives us the desire /will  for Him 
  without that we  do not do anything 
  ALL in due time 

[WhiteWings]

If "a God all mercy is a God unjust," would not a God all justice be a God unmerciful?  No.  God will always show His mercy until the day of judgment when sin must be judged for what it is:  DEATH.  God is not the God of the dead, but of the living (Mat22:32, Mark 12:27).
You got this one almost right. Kudos to you!
God is the God of everything. Of the living. Of the dead. Of every speckt of dust and of every star in the universe.
Just because He created it and therefore owns it.
So if he chooses not to be the God of the dead He needs to make the dead alive.
Is there any such thing in God as just cruelty, or merciful injustice? Yes.  If you define "cruelty" as punishment for sin, then the answer is yes.  God does not force Himself on people.
Generalizing to wriggle out won't work. AFAIK Gary speaks about the "endless ET torture justice" not the " limited UR correctional justice".
Are you more merciful than the God Who made you?  Absolutely no.  God's creation can never be greater than The Creator, therefore, God's mercy is the greatest.  Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
I've seen judges giving 5 years of jail for murder. A cell with TV, food and bed. That almost sounds more merciful than an endless lava bath...

[bobf]

His rebuttal to the first question is nonsense showing that he did not even read it carefully.

[rebeccat]

I actually saw this a while ago as well.  One of the things which I am a huge stickler for is that if you are going to criticize or argue against someone else, then you need to be able to accurately describe what the person you are trying to refute is saying.  I think it is very telling that I have yet to come across a critic of UR who accurately portrays biblical UR.  They all seem to rely on things like ignoring the role of corrective chastisement or pretending that URers just ignore certain bible verses, etc.  Once a critic can accurately represent the biblical UR position, I would be interested in hearing what they have to say.  Ya know?

[Doc]

I actually saw this a while ago as well.  One of the things which I am a huge stickler for is that if you are going to criticize or argue against someone else, then you need to be able to accurately describe what the person you are trying to refute is saying.  I think it is very telling that I have yet to come across a critic of UR who accurately portrays biblical UR.  They all seem to rely on things like ignoring the role of corrective chastisement or pretending that URers just ignore certain bible verses, etc.  Once a critic can accurately represent the biblical UR position, I would be interested in hearing what they have to say.  Ya know?

I agree, Rebecca. After hearing our pastor's sermons against "universalism". One of the people I'd been sharing it with told me that she thought the pastor had good things to say, but really missed the point.

The official term is "straw man argument", among other things. (A straw man argument is where you set up a false representation of the other person's argument, and attack that).

[Paul Hazelwood]

Of the people in my personal life I have yet to have anyone that has made some skeptical comment about universalism actually want to have a conversation with me about it.

They make their comment and when I point out that is not how I believe I hear no more from them.

In fact I got a comment one time when someone saw that I was a universalist if that was the teaching of a certain person.  When I pointed out that what I believe is not necessarily what someone else believes or what someone has been led to believe universalism means, no more words from them.

I'm waiting for the day that someone actually asks  "what is it you believe"  lol.   Of course even here we have various beliefs on what scripture says.  So while humans seem to gravitate towards labels, they are one of the more frustrating parts of trying to share what we do believe.

[WhiteWings]

Paul,

Many people just look for confirmation of what they already believe...

Many people just believe what they are told to believe.
They read verses but don't understand the story.
And when you show them a real verse from a real Bible that seems to contradict what they believe they simply hide...
When a unknown person like you says such a thing you are a hertic.
If 5 of the most well known hell and damnation teachers suddenly start preaching UR then everybody has always know it because it's so clear.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Paul,

Many people just look for confirmation of what they already believe...

Many people just believe what they are told to believe.
They read verses but don't understand the story.
And when you show them a real verse from a real Bible that seems to contradict what they believe they simply hide...
When a unknown person like you says such a thing you are a hertic.
If 5 of the most well known hell and damnation teachers suddenly start preaching UR then everybody has always know it because it's so clear.

Actually my own struggle is realizing that I used to be the same way and just be understanding.

[Shadow]

Scriptural Refutation of "213 Brainless Questions Without Answers" by Gary Spamereault

I have had a look at that website, it's like so many other "christian" websites out there, totally lacking in common courtesy and decorum

Why are people that think and behave like that, starting to sound so much like clanging gongs in my ears

1Co 13:1  Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
1Co 13:2  And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3  And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
1Co 13:4  Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5  Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6  Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7  Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1Co 13:8  Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1Co 13:9  For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10  But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Co 13:11  When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Co 13:12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
1Co 13:13  And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

[rosered]

 
   Tis True , so many when they first hear  God will save everyone in the end , consumation of the ages , All in All
  the ET  defense  is "Than why do we go though all this than , If GOD  is going to save everyone?"
 
  For me it is plain , that they are trying  to do good works and earn the right to Gods kingdom , that is the mentality
 and anyone  not doing the  same things they do,they  feel threatened by this .
  To show them it is the gift of Gods grace  and the dead works do not cut it , they become  almost  violent in nature , like a dog with a bone  not all run and hide
  If they do go hide , that seed,  will  be planted in their hearts and in time a bud will spring up  or wither and die  matt  13 , it was that way for me
  I was not so easily convinced  at first , it sounded to good to be true , and the skeptic in me  always believed if it sounds to good to be true  , it is NOT TRUE 
 
 Lots of soul searching and diggin in scriptures  and some wonderful folks   the Good Lord sent ,  messengers/angels proclaiming  the good news ,
  I have   read and heard some  odd  teachings  when it comes to religion
 and what separates  everyone from one another 
 
  but  the Bible states  in Pauls testimony , it is by ONE GOD , ONE FAITH , ONE SPIRIT   .. and that I can keep alive in hope 

[alihaymeg]

The sad thing is that most who are opposed to the message of (UR) seem to want people to burn in Hell forever. I would think that, if there was even the slightest posibility that it was true, they would at least want to explore it. We become so enslaved to tradition and the teachings of others that we build up a wall of spiritual armor that makes us unteachable. Even the voice of the Holy Spirit becomes obscured by the hard-line rules of dogmatic tradition. Jesus said it best when He pointed out that only those who can humble themselves like a little child will be able to enter into the fullness of His grace. He was talking about becoming teachable again.

[rosered]

Jesus said it best when He pointed out that only those who can humble themselves like a little child will be able to enter into the fullness of His grace. He was talking about becoming teachable again.

  You said it there girl ! being taught by the Spirit and not traditions of men

 
maybe that is what true repentance is ? a change of mind /heart metanoia
 greek 3341
 1) a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents, of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done


   even bearing fruit acceptable for repentance is in season , seed , planting  ,growth ,  maturity and harvest
 all done in the Lords will ,

  Like Paul  says  babes in Christ  being nurtured on the sincere milk of the word is the best start  to good spiritual health ..  


and being taught by the Holy Spirit  and not the spirits but we are to /test try them , they sure are good lawyers  and readers of the Word scribes /etc.    yet they do not keep all the Law either  ? ..

 Gal3 ;22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.


 Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

 Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

 Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

 Gal 3:26 For you are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

[alihaymeg]

Preach it sister!

I know I have a girlie sounding screen name, but I am actually a guy. I use my kid's names for my screen name (Allie, Hayden, Megan).

I guess I am an avid femanist, and it probably comes out in my writing as well.    Girl Power! 
No, I'm not gay!

[Texas Son]

1. As we are required to love our enemies, may we not safely infer that God loves His enemies? (Matt. 5:44)   Only those saved by the blood of Jesus Christ can truly indeed love His enemies.  Apart from Jesus Christ, we can do nothing. (John 15:5)
The answer avoids the question. Is God not capable doing anything without Jesus....?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2.If God loves His enemies, will He punish them more than will be for their good?  God's love for every single created being does not save, for all have sinned (Romans 3:10, 3:23) and all have fallen short of the glory of God.  God righteously punishes those that refused the free gift of salvation for they have no excuse (Romans 1:20).  Because they can choose between good and evil(2Peter 2:10).  Self-willed means self-willed against God's will(2Peter2:10).  When a Christian sins, is this God's will or Man's will?
AFAIK UR doesn't claim God let sins go unpunished. They are corrective, effective and therefore ending.

Romans 5:10 "For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."

This verse has two very distinct parts. "For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son". Apart from anything we have done, we have already been reconciled! This cannot be overlooked. While we were enemies... what? We were reconciled! The flesh may still be hostile to God, but we have been reconciled!

The second part of the verse says, "much more (glory!!  ), having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life." Again, notice, "having been reconciled" "It is finished!". Romans 6 takes us into death, burial and resurrection with Christ. This is what "saves" us from the wrath to come upon all flesh. If we do not received the free gift of grace, although reconciled, our flesh will have to go through the all consuming fires, "but he himself shall be saved, yet so as through fire."

[alihaymeg]

Right on Brother!

[Taffy]

Preach it sister!

I know I have a girlie sounding screen name, but I am actually a guy. I use my kid's names for my screen name (Allie, Hayden, Megan).

I guess I am an avid femanist, and it probably comes out in my writing as well.    Girl Power! 
No, I'm not gay!

I once did the same Bud, "Jalzt" James , Amy, Leigh, Zara and Tracey My long suffering wife

[WhiteWings]

Romans 5:10 "For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."

This verse has two very distinct parts. "For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son". Apart from anything we have done, we have already been reconciled! This cannot be overlooked. While we were enemies... what? We were reconciled! The flesh may still be hostile to God, but we have been reconciled!

ET: the we-group are the elect

The second part of the verse says, "much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life." Again, notice, "having been reconciled" "It is finished!". Romans 6 takes us into death, burial and resurrection with Christ. This is what "saves" us from the wrath to coenemies... what? We were reconciled! The flesh may still be hostile to God, but we have been reconciled!

ET: the we-group are the elect
ET: the coenemies will suffer in hell forever.

[Texas Son]

Romans 5:10 "For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."

This verse has two very distinct parts. "For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son". Apart from anything we have done, we have already been reconciled! This cannot be overlooked. While we were enemies... what? We were reconciled! The flesh may still be hostile to God, but we have been reconciled!

ET: the we-group are the elect

The second part of the verse says, "much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life." Again, notice, "having been reconciled" "It is finished!". Romans 6 takes us into death, burial and resurrection with Christ. This is what "saves" us from the wrath to coenemies... what? We were reconciled! The flesh may still be hostile to God, but we have been reconciled!

ET: the we-group are the elect
ET: the coenemies will suffer in hell forever.

And they call us heretics? 

[alihaymeg]

Yah, Jesus and the apostles and all of the believers in the first 500 years after Christ must have had it wrong when they taught universal restoration. It's a good thing we had the dark ages to straiten out that mess.

[B_T]

Oh, I can't stop laughing, especially at the name "Spamereault" :) 

[rosered]

Preach it sister!

I know I have a girlie sounding screen name, but I am actually a guy. I use my kid's names for my screen name (Allie, Hayden, Megan).

I guess I am an avid femanist, and it probably comes out in my writing as well.    Girl Power! 
No, I'm not gay!

  my apologies bro , you   sound like an angel of the Lord , they are  neither male nor female
  but angels  :cloud9:Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.


 Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.


 Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.


 Mat 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

 
  I do not know about everyone else here , but i feel as though i have been  brought back from the dead 
 
  thanking God  and His Spirit of Truth

[alihaymeg]

Amen to that!

     I actually feel equally connected to everyone. Being androgynous is the best. It lets you be strong and assertive but also gentle and feeling. Just like God is. That's why we complament one another(men and women); because the combination makes a complete person.

Heb13:2 [ Greek Font Size: – / + | Toggle Font ] [ View in: BYZ / TR | Side-by-side | Greek Lexical Parser ]
Be not forgetful (5737) to entertain strangers: for thereby * * some have entertained (5660) angels unawares (5627) .

Angels= Aggelos (transliterated)

a messenger, envoy, one who is sent, an angel, a messenger from God

[rosered]

Amen to that!

     I actually feel equally connected to everyone. Being androgynous is the best. It lets you be strong and assertive but also gentle and feeling. Just like God is. That's why we complament one another(men and women); because the combination makes a complete person.

Heb13:2 [ Greek Font Size: – / + | Toggle Font ] [ View in: BYZ / TR | Side-by-side | Greek Lexical Parser ]
Be not forgetful (5737) to entertain strangers: for thereby * * some have entertained (5660) angels unawares (5627) .

Angels= Aggelos (transliterated)

a messenger, envoy, one who is sent, an angel, a messenger from God

  I think it is awesome , we are to know no one  after the flesh !
 
  that means Spirit right     and there is ONE SPIRIT    we are ALL to be gathered into  the Lords Body Jesus  Christ
 
 But I think its cool you used all 3  of your childrens names to  get your moniker