Author Topic: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED  (Read 44534 times)

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Offline thinktank

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #325 on: October 08, 2010, 04:50:59 AM »
My 2¢

The war in "heaven" is between my ears until:
He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
                                                                      Luke 10:18


Yes, but neither does that contradict that it is a spiritual war between heavenly beings and rulers of wickedness in high places.

Do you think the Satanists are just pretending?

he's still prince of the air, remember where comest thou? Asked God to Satan.

To and fro the earth, so he can still fly about in the sky, perhaps even go to outer space called heavens in scripture, but cannot enter Gods heavenly throne or mount sion heavenly Jerusalem the future home of the saints.


Yes, but my point is the Satanists aren't pretending any more than we are pretending.  They are tapping into an evil power that is real.

Disclaimer: Many here disagree with me.  Maybe everyone LOL.



I don't know what others are saying but I'm not saying that Satan does not have power, simply that he has lost power, he still has the power to tempt, just as Jesus was tempted and can cause false miracles through false christs, deceitful workers, witches, warlocks, etc. But Jesus said we have power over all the power of the enemy so whatever devices, spells and sorcery people invent, they do not harm the people of Jesus.

I heard a witch say that they try to attack christians but they have angels protecting them.


Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #326 on: October 08, 2010, 04:55:38 AM »
My 2¢

The war in "heaven" is between my ears until:
He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
                                                                      Luke 10:18


Yes, but neither does that contradict that it is a spiritual war between heavenly beings and rulers of wickedness in high places.

Do you think the Satanists are just pretending?

Oh no, Molly, it's obvious that not everyone is naive to whom they serve.

Offline Molly

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #327 on: October 08, 2010, 04:59:28 AM »
A lot of Gen 6 is fleshed out in the Book of Enoch on the Nephilim, which I think the book of Jude is quoting, and maybe Peter, too.  So--Enoch is kind of a missing piece of the puzzle.  I don't see why we can't read it if our Bible quotes it.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #328 on: October 08, 2010, 05:00:32 AM »

...and yes, people tap in that power all day, everyday.
It's all around us and usually a first response.

Outside of the Sabbath there is no peace.
It's all war.


Offline thinktank

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #329 on: October 08, 2010, 05:02:41 AM »
The War in Heaven doesn't mean that the "Watchers" (as the angels who mated with humans tend to be called), were the cause.

As for the sons of God gathering - it says "and Satan came also among them";

You might say something along this way.

"And Congress gathered themselves before the President, and Rush Limbaugh came also among them."

Rush Limbaugh...thankfully...isn't a member of Congress, is he?  :thumbsup:

Yeah the sons of god could be the holy angels of God and Satan decides to ruin the party.

devil (vanity)
Well well what a lovely gathering how are you Gabriel, still eating manna, hello God, hope that throne is comfy, i'll be there soon.

Jude 1:9  

Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

It shows the power of the devil in the old testment

Daniel 10:13  

But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

so it shows that the devil can even mix with the holy angels during BC and not be phased. But now the power of Christ and his blood overcomes him, halleliwyah.


Offline thinktank

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #330 on: October 08, 2010, 05:09:04 AM »
A lot of Gen 6 is fleshed out in the Book of Enoch on the Nephilim, which I think the book of Jude is quoting, and maybe Peter, too.  So--Enoch is kind of a missing piece of the puzzle.  I don't see why we can't read it if our Bible quotes it.

The book of enoch could be what started the ET myth, you sure you want to read it?

It says the angels that took the women were cast into a fiery furnace, but the bible says that angels are chained in darkness awaiting judgment. To me that's a contradiction.

If one group of angels is tortured for eternity for their crimes but the group of angels in the bible, who's sin is leaving their original habitation gets a prison sentence, I don't see that as justice on many angles.

I haven't read the book for a while but does the book of enoch mention anything about God taking him to heaven?

Offline thinktank

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #331 on: October 08, 2010, 06:35:21 AM »
The Wickedness of Mankind

6And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.


Notice that the sons of God ( capital G) took for themselves (selfishness) all they chose. So the daughters of men(cains daughters, those who do not have a relationship with the lord, vagabonds) are regarded as inferior having no rights. So we see here that no only do the sons of God think themselves better, but also take the daughters of men by force.

Notice that God is grieved and says

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

So if the sons of God are in fact fallen angels or Gods angels who decided to rebell at that particular point, then why does God punish man for the sins of the angels?


6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

So the fallen angels do a great evil but man gets the punishment and the blame, doesn't sound like justice. It's not justice either that the entire human race gets punished for the sins of the line of Seth, but often in the bible humanity is judged together, such as Noah's flood, but man doesn't get punished for the sins of the devil or fallen angels. In this verse God decides to destroy man and also repents that he made man, or regrets making man. There is nothing about the angels here, why doesn't God repent for making the angels, the very ones that supposedly brought this wickedness to mankind.

But if these sons of God are in fact of the line of Seth, then not only can they be accounted as Sons of God but also they are the ones that are accountable bringing God's punishment of a smaller lifespan and then also complete destruction.



4 There were giants in the earth in those days;

Dinosaurs  :mshock:

and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

why are there two sets of giants? One set is called mighty men, but the first set are simply called giants. We know that the second set are called mighty men, but the first set are simply called giants in the earth, and in archaelogy records we have bones of giant prehistoric mammals or lizards. This could be the verse that explains dinosaurs.


9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect [1] in his generations, and Noah walked with God. 10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.


Violence filling the earth, man eating dinosaurs and giant violent men, the stuff of legends. There doesn't seem to be any record of giant lizards in the 7 days of creation, what if the sin of man caused a mutation in the lizard animals causing them to supersize just like the giants  :mshock:

Perhaps the sons of God being seth used their powers for evil. Remember that Noah a rightoeus man had the power to curse his son to be slaves for generations. The power of the tongue in an anointed man can move mountains, what if these old men of God used their power to create giant lizards  :mshock: either that or their evil deeds, perhaps bestiality (passing a curse onto the animals)caused these giant lizards  :mshock:

Didn't God say to Adam ye are gods and back then the power of blessings and cursing was far more impactful. Wow the power that God has given man, maybe that's why people think that the fallen angels caused the mutation, they have forgotten the awesome power that God has given mankind, that we are made in his image  :mshock:

Also mans power is what does the witchcraft, why do the demons need man to do these things, if they the demons already have the power, maybe because they need mans words, their tongue to send the curse.

praise the lord for goodness and mercy in Jesus name.

« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 06:59:09 AM by thinktank »

Offline Pierac

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #332 on: October 08, 2010, 08:04:25 AM »
Joh 3:6  "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

I think the women of tentmaker are safe from naughty angels.  :mblush:

Paul

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #333 on: October 08, 2010, 09:33:10 AM »
 :cloud9: I don't agree with the witch's statement, TT. Demons attack Christians; some Christians just know of the power they have thru Christ, some don't.

There was a story related by Lester Sumrall, I think it was, about a mad witchdoctor who sent a demon to kill him in some mostly pagan area of the world. The demon had succeeded with some of the missionaries. Another was Norval Hayes, who said Satan came into his room one night.

And for a 3rd, but lesser known witness  :laughing7:, so have I. Seems they take particular offense at both witnessing and casting them out of people's homes and bodies. Who knew?  :winkgrin: Blessings....
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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #334 on: October 08, 2010, 04:00:07 PM »
  Although there may be some truth to it (or not), some folks have woven an entire cosmology out of a couple strands of scripture and some accompanying slivers from writings that may be no more than myth. I think the whole thing deserves about as much attention as it was given in the word(not much). Perhaps the Norse and Greek mythology of the Titans comes from historic echoes of these beings. I do think the whole Nephilim /Rephaim controversy would make a great background for a novel of speculative fiction about the time from Seth and leading up to the flood story.

As a note of interest,I did some projections and  using some very reasonable numbers (50 progeny each over 200 childbearing years out of a lifespan of 600 to 900 years for the sons of Adam through Methusaleh. Then 5 children each for their succeeding generations) their could have EASILY been 1 to 2 billion people on the earth by the time of the flood. I chose these numbers considering that my father was one of ten children born over 17 years and I factored in high percentages of attrition due to the violence of the age.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline Lefein

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #335 on: October 08, 2010, 07:29:13 PM »
Thinktank;

According to the Interlinear Scriptural Analyzer, the word "Nphlim" means "distinguished ones", the word Giant came from the Septuagint, where the Greeks had translated that word into "gigantes".  The word "Giant" brings with it the baggage of massive, brutish, troll-like people; Goliath.

If Goliath was a Nephilim, it is important to consider that genetics still plays its role, as Tolkien would have put it, he would have been the "son of lesser men his noble blood line mingled with common folk".

I would probably look at it like this; Nephilim = Mighty (perhaps even large in stature) handsome men, princes of their age.  But like all princes, some were powerful, beautiful, and fair - while others abuse their angelic breeding and where evil.

Just like normal men, some are nice, some are Hitlers - but even Hitler is a distinguished man, violent, and brutal - but not your typical blood stained, club wielding giant.

I'd attribute the destruction of the human race and their wickedness not to the Nephilim, but to the very nature of men themselves.

They lived to be at least 700 years old, usually 900 is the mentioned number, and according to YEC renderings of what the earth would have been like at the time - they would have been extremely healthy what with the greater amounts of oxygen in the air, and other environmental factors being taken into account.  In essence - lawless, wicked men, living up to 900 long years in pristine health and longevity, and one key thing we forget - Intelligence!

It took only from 1930 to 1940, ten years approximately for Hitler to put his Final Solution into gruesome effect.  

Could you imagine the greed, and horror that a 600 year old tyrant having had more than 530 years to perfect, and practice his wicked trade - still healthy, and still terribly intelligent, increasingly so, and still retaining all of his cruel memories at the prime of his long life, with 300 years or more left to live it?  There isn't a word to describe how vile it could have gotten on the Earth...What a man seven times worse than Stalin, with Herculean longevity, intelligence, and health could have done in the span of only 100 years is unimaginable, let alone half a millennium.

I could see why God would have been keen on flooding the Earth with billions of these sort running about.

They had already developed metal working and building cities - I almost wonder if sometimes they were not culturally advanced almost as much as we are in some areas.  We went from the static fraught tube radio to the ipod in about 100 years these people lived on average individually to be 900.

« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 07:44:45 PM by Lefein »
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline thinktank

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #336 on: October 08, 2010, 11:33:46 PM »
Thinktank;

According to the Interlinear Scriptural Analyzer, the word "Nphlim" means "distinguished ones", the word Giant came from the Septuagint, where the Greeks had translated that word into "gigantes".  The word "Giant" brings with it the baggage of massive, brutish, troll-like people; Goliath.

If Goliath was a Nephilim, it is important to consider that genetics still plays its role, as Tolkien would have put it, he would have been the "son of lesser men his noble blood line mingled with common folk".

I would probably look at it like this; Nephilim = Mighty (perhaps even large in stature) handsome men, princes of their age.  But like all princes, some were powerful, beautiful, and fair - while others abuse their angelic breeding and where evil.

Just like normal men, some are nice, some are Hitlers - but even Hitler is a distinguished man, violent, and brutal - but not your typical blood stained, club wielding giant.

I'd attribute the destruction of the human race and their wickedness not to the Nephilim, but to the very nature of men themselves.

They lived to be at least 700 years old, usually 900 is the mentioned number, and according to YEC renderings of what the earth would have been like at the time - they would have been extremely healthy what with the greater amounts of oxygen in the air, and other environmental factors being taken into account.  In essence - lawless, wicked men, living up to 900 long years in pristine health and longevity, and one key thing we forget - Intelligence!

It took only from 1930 to 1940, ten years approximately for Hitler to put his Final Solution into gruesome effect.  

Could you imagine the greed, and horror that a 600 year old tyrant having had more than 530 years to perfect, and practice his wicked trade - still healthy, and still terribly intelligent, increasingly so, and still retaining all of his cruel memories at the prime of his long life, with 300 years or more left to live it?  There isn't a word to describe how vile it could have gotten on the Earth...What a man seven times worse than Stalin, with Herculean longevity, intelligence, and health could have done in the span of only 100 years is unimaginable, let alone half a millennium.

I could see why God would have been keen on flooding the Earth with billions of these sort running about.

They had already developed metal working and building cities - I almost wonder if sometimes they were not culturally advanced almost as much as we are in some areas.  We went from the static fraught tube radio to the ipod in about 100 years these people lived on average individually to be 900.



dictionary

gi·ant  (jnt)
n.
1.
a. A person or thing of great size.
b. A person or thing of extraordinary power, significance, or importance: a giant in the field of physics; automotive industry giants.

a = look this person or structure is tall, no other attributes required

b= This person has achieved success or greatness.

Now according to the bible first there were giants, then after that mighty men, men of renown.

So the word giants does not mean that they were succesful or even that they were men, the scripture simplt states that there were giants in those days. A person or thing of great size, we know in history that there were giant dinousaurs that we have bones of, some of which are perfectly reserved, even though they are supposedly millions of years old.


According to the Interlinear Scriptural Analyzer, the word "Nphlim" means "distinguished ones", the word Giant came from the Septuagint, where the Greeks had translated that word into "gigantes". 

Distinguished ones? If you were 9 feet tall in your familly, would you be a distinguished one?


The word "Giant" brings with it the baggage of massive, brutish, troll-like people; Goliath.


'baggage'? Where does this baggage come from? wordly conditioning? so that when you think of giant your brain automatically belives that this means giant men, because throughout your life you have been programmed as a child to associate giant with a big tall man. But according to the dictionary a giant can mean a big tall thing as well as a big tall man.

Now concerning the other verse which says that they are mighty men and men of renown. We cannot call these dinosuars because God calls them men, so why are these called mighty men? because men do this


1 Samuel 16:7   

But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.

The vanity of man assumes a big man is a mighty man, and therefore assigns these men the position of being soldiers. IF you had to choose an army of soldiers would you choose the 6ft tall soldier or the 9 ft tall giant. Most would choose the 9 ft soldier as their stature is inclined for them to be strong and feared.

With these giants born and rape hapening, this would be the beginning of earthly warfare and rivarly as the scripture says the earth was filled with violence. The fathers of the daughters of men would probably looked for revenge on the sons of God and would have mounted warfare on them. The sons of God would have recruited their sons the giants, to help defend them from Cainanites.

As further proof that these sons of God are not angels but men, the fact is that this event only happened once in scripture is significant, for fallen angels exist today and some demons may attack humans through their souls, but they do not father children.

Also a warning that according to some sources whether this be true or not but I would not be suprised if there be some sort of variation on this story, that fallen angels will reappear on the earth in future and claim to be our gods or creators, they can use this story to deceive mankind. Similar to what hitler believed in that the assyrian race were the master race the sons of God, while the rest are like the sons of cain and are not as worthy. This could be how the antichrist gets people to worship him by claiming to be of Godly lineage and using false wonders to deceive people.

Perhaps they say that daughters of men are evolved neathandrals most of humanity, and that the sons of God are the master race of Godly descent. To be forewarned is to be prepared against deception. :2c:




Offline Lefein

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #337 on: October 08, 2010, 11:53:31 PM »
Original Hebrew:

e'nphlim eiu b'artz b'imim e'em u'gm achri-kn ashr ibau bmo e'aleim al-bnuth e'adm u'ildu l'em eme e'gbrim ashr m'oulm anshi e'shm.

Literal Translation:

the'ones-distinguished they-became in'the'earth in'the'days the'those and'moreover after so which they-are-coming sons-of the'Elohim to daughers-of the'human and'they-gave-birth for'them they the'masterful-men who from'eon mortals-of the'name.

CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline thinktank

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #338 on: October 09, 2010, 12:01:11 AM »
:cloud9: I don't agree with the witch's statement, TT. Demons attack Christians; some Christians just know of the power they have thru Christ, some don't.

There was a story related by Lester Sumrall, I think it was, about a mad witchdoctor who sent a demon to kill him in some mostly pagan area of the world. The demon had succeeded with some of the missionaries. Another was Norval Hayes, who said Satan came into his room one night.

And for a 3rd, but lesser known witness  :laughing7:, so have I. Seems they take particular offense at both witnessing and casting them out of people's homes and bodies. Who knew?  :winkgrin: Blessings....

 :cloud9:  Interesting that you when you say you witness a demon attacking Lestor that a witchdoctor sent the demon  :grin: isn't that what I'm saying?

If you look throughout the bible there are references to sorcorery, witchcraft, women using napkins or something, warlocks etc. If demons don't need these people then why do they influence these people to do these crazy lotions and potions in hidden places of the earth. There are billions of demons but only a few people are attacked as such using sorcorery, the rest of the demons can only wisper lies to people and entice them to sin so that they may feed off their lusts. These kinds of things witchcraft, sorcorery have been hidden from the masses and even the christian community for hundreds of years, since the witch burnings (A lot of paranoia back then though rather than holy spirit revelation), but now today with holy spirit revelation and the absolute flood of witchraft on the media, tv, internet and hollywood movies, where even daytime pop videos now glorify the devil and occult symbols, board games such as ouji boards are sold as kids toys, halloween is more popular than ever, these activites are bringing it back to attention, only those filled with the revelation of the holy spirit can discern these activities, the sleeping population, just see it as harmless fantasy, but people like those you mentioned are not just lied too, they are spiritually attacked by occult forces. The people in south affrica are probably the most keenly aware of the power of witchcraft, many testimonies from there about deliverance from black magic in Jesus name.


Offline Molly

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #339 on: October 09, 2010, 02:02:30 AM »
14Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?
--Heb 1

We see here that angels ['sons of God'] are ministering spirits who have a job--to serve those who will inherit salvation.

So if they are in rebellion, they would do the opposite, that is, leave the spirit world [their first estate?], and seek to hurt, dominate, obstruct, and destroy us.

Offline Lefein

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #340 on: October 09, 2010, 02:15:34 AM »
Why do I still get the feeling that these angels merely...fell in love?
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline Molly

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #341 on: October 09, 2010, 02:23:25 AM »
Why do I still get the feeling that these angels merely...fell in love?
Because you're a romantic.   :laughing7:


But, seriously, what these angels were doing was very bad--hence the necessity for God to destroy the world by flood, and again, destroy sodom and gomorrah where they were going after 'strange flesh' [remember how they tried to attack the angels who came to save Lot?]

That is, if you believe this is what was going on.

Offline thinktank

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #342 on: October 09, 2010, 02:55:45 AM »
Why do I still get the feeling that these angels merely...fell in love?
Because you're a romantic.   :laughing7:


But, seriously, what these angels were doing was very bad--hence the necessity for God to destroy the world by flood, and again, destroy sodom and gomorrah where they were going after 'strange flesh' [remember how they tried to attack the angels who came to save Lot?]

That is, if you believe this is what was going on.

Going after strange flesh, to me that means the men went after anything but their wives. Lot even offered daughters to to the men to do as they please, but they refused, they wanted the men, having woman was not perverse enough it seems.

And if they were fallen angels in Sodom where are the giants? and why did they refuse lots daughters? More likely they were doing as Romans says men and women burning in lust towards each other and abandoning natural affection for that which is seemingly.

Also I believe that these wicked evil men went after animals, strange flesh.

There's nothing here about fallen angels. Only that these men wanted these 2 angels who they belived were men, even lot thought they were men, otherwise if he thought they were powerful angelic beings why was he affraid that these angels could not defend themselves, since when did an angel of God need a man to defend them, it is usually the other way round.

Also the reason molly why God destroyed Sodom was because the cries of the rightoeus went up to heaven and God himself decided to come to earth to see for himself whether what they said were true. This is when Abraham pleaded that God spare the city if he could find 10 righteous persons.

In revelation we also have the saints to cry for vengeance and God destroys mystery babylon.

Offline Molly

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #343 on: October 09, 2010, 04:00:49 AM »
TT, my computer with the Greek Bible is in the shop, but I think that word for strange is heteros.  Here's a defintion I found for it

another: i.e. one not of the same nature, form, class, kind, different

If the men of sodom are going after male angels, one would think that would be the same flesh--homo--but here it's called strange flesh--heteros--which I take to mean a different kind of flesh.

Like our word heterosexual comes from this word--male and female are not the same.

Yes, the meaning would also fit animals.


PS the giants are still around when Joshua enters the promised land.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2010, 04:07:12 AM by Molly »

Offline thinktank

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #344 on: October 09, 2010, 05:07:39 AM »
TT, my computer with the Greek Bible is in the shop, but I think that word for strange is heteros.  Here's a defintion I found for it

another: i.e. one not of the same nature, form, class, kind, different

If the men of sodom are going after male angels, one would think that would be the same flesh--homo--but here it's called strange flesh--heteros--which I take to mean a different kind of flesh.

Like our word heterosexual comes from this word--male and female are not the same.

Yes, the meaning would also fit animals.


PS the giants are still around when Joshua enters the promised land.


Sodom did many sins, not just sodomy. I don't see why God would destroy Sodom because of unholy angels, perhaps they influenced yes, but to interact with flesh with sodom and do the sexual sins I don't see that in scripture.


Jude 1:7   

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.



Jeremiah 23:14   

I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

ezekiel
9 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.



Offline Lefein

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #345 on: October 09, 2010, 05:16:25 AM »
Sodom and Gomorrah and the rest of the cities around sound an awful lot like Las Vegas...
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline Molly

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #346 on: October 09, 2010, 06:26:22 AM »

Well, ok.  I just think there are some really interesting things going on here.  The men of sodom really lusted after those angels, meaning to me that this was not something foreign to them.  If I saw an angel for the first time, I don't think it is unbridled lust that would enter my mind first.  I also would consider an angel 'strange flesh' to a human.


Here, the translator puts the angels and sodom in the same sentence, to show they are related.



 5Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

6And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day— 7just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire [strange flesh], serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

--Jude 1



Here, the translator says the angels left their 'princehood' giving reference to the princes mentioned in Daniel, and the princes of this age named in 1 Cor 2:6 and 1 Cor 2:8.

6 And he reserved under darkness angels, that kept not their princehood, but forsook their house, into the doom of the great God, into everlasting bonds. [Soothly angels that kept not his princehood, but forsook his house, he reserved into the doom of great God, in everlasting bonds under darkness.]


The saints are being raised up to to take the place of the fallen princes when Jesus returns to rule the world with his saints in the next age.

1 Samuel 2:8
He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them.

Offline Lefein

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #347 on: October 09, 2010, 06:31:48 AM »
The angels seem to have appeared as normal men, before unleashing their might and blinding the city.
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline Molly

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #348 on: October 09, 2010, 06:40:42 AM »
The angels seem to have appeared as normal men, before unleashing their might and blinding the city.
Then why were the men of sodom acting in such an extreme about them that Lot was barring the door and offering up his daughters?  Surely, there were plenty of other normal men about in the city who could satisfy them.

But we know they didn't look normal because of how Abraham treated them.


1And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

 2And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

 3And said, My LORD, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

--Gen 18

Offline Lefein

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Re: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED
« Reply #349 on: October 09, 2010, 06:46:53 AM »
Perhaps they where very, very cute... >_>  To Sodomites.

And obviously, if I can put it a little bit crudely...

"Fresh meat"
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.