Author Topic: Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED  (Read 48598 times)

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Offline thinktank

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #100 on: September 09, 2010, 10:52:49 PM »
Regarding willieH's posts--

It took me a while to get used to them, but now I consider them a work of art.  I can't imagine how he creates them any more than I can imagine how Rembrandt created the Night Watch.

God did not give me artistic talent, alas... :sigh:  Nor the patience it requires.

But, thankfully, now I am coming to appreciate art more and more.

So to willieH--I appreciate and enjoy your posts, but even more the talent that it takes to create them. :thumbsup:



It's pretty easy how he creates them he just gets a bit mad and stamps the caps lock key  AGAIN AND AGAIN AND THEN THROWS AN INSULT OR TWO, great work of art, to annoy and insult the body of Christ  :thumbsup:

Offline Lefein

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #101 on: September 09, 2010, 10:58:05 PM »
I myself was not too fond of this...

Quote from: willieH
The WORD notes the age of the Earth to be [approximately] 6K years...  

The Bible doesn't actually say that, does it?

No...Molly it doesn't.  

:rolleye:

...willieH  :cloud9:

But I think we might do well to divert now from WillieH, and let God deal with his postwork.  I suspect a devil's plot of division, and I don't want to see the devil succeed in dividing the body over a silly issue that will inevitably amend itself.
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline willieH

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #102 on: September 09, 2010, 11:07:08 PM »
willieH: Hi Lefein...  :winkgrin:

WillieH; please let your yea be yea, and your nay be nay when it comes to your future responses.  I beg you now as a brother in Christ, for your benefit.

No offense dear brother, but please, if you would be so kind, ...explain to me, in what way shall ME changing myself to suit YOU, ...benefit, ME?   :JCThink:

:omg: You piously instruct me that I need to make my "yea be yea", "nay be nay" ...and then you post all of this? --->

Simple elegance will suffice, and the main problem is that the posts are simply too neon bold to quote efficiently,


Because I use color in my posts, does not inhibit them to be quoted.  Again, no offense intended to you brother, ...but this brand of subtle complaint actually is quite lame.  Shall we petition the Television producers to resort to Black & White so it is easier to behold?  Or maybe a law should be passed that Advertisements on Billboards must be Black & White, that they shall be easier to understand?

let alone answer properly - it hinders discussion...and puts unfortunately a hurdle in my way, a stumbling block if you will.

Please dear brother... I have been a member here, posting as I do in excess of 7 years... Many answer me "properly"!  What does color within text, have to do with comprehension?

If my posts pose a "hurdle" to you due to detail, then ignore them brother, Lefein.

Your definition of "simple" appears to be brevity... which is really not the definition of the word.  Simplicity can be lengthy and yet remain simple.  I do not use enlarged vocabulary which requires one to spend as much time in a dictionary as in reading what is said... I speak in common terms, as the level of my education was quite moderate. 

But on topic, and it may be a little behind since I could only pull part of the quote forth to answer it... :(

Pretty cryptic words... please simplify so I might understand...

The Bible does not ever say that the age of the earth is 6k years.

I have already addressed this.

The Bible only does three things regarding the Genesis account of Creation:

1: State as fact - In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth, the Earth was formless and void, and the Godhead was present over the waters, which where yet to be ordered into atmosphere - liquid ocean.

Sorry, but the "godhead" is not mentioned in Genesis 1...  The word Elohim is used in Gen 1 -- Elohim, though a plural form, does not imply PLURALITY in being.  No more than the word "YOU" as I address YOU... means that YOU are more than 1 being.  You wear plural hats (son, grandson, husband, brother, friend, uncle, etc) but YOU remain ONE being.

The Earth in essence, was Crust and some form of chaotic vapourous covering, over which God was present having made it that way - preparing to order it.

This is an ASSUMPTION... the WORD does not mention that either the "WATERS" or the Earth mentioned in Gen 1:1 -- were physical in nature.  They were EMERGING from a SPIRIT... so in that process, their "beginning" was more likely SPIRITUAL, than PHYSICAL (though I, as you, cannot PROVE this to be so).

When CHRIST speaks of the "drinking of the WATER of life"... neither the "water" nor the "drinking" of it, ...can be considered a PHYSICAL act, even though it's "doing" quenches the "thirst" (which isn't PHYSICAL either) of the SPIRIT within...

The "deep" mentioned in this verse aludes to ABYSS... an ABYSS can be SPIRITUAL in nature as well as PHYSICAL.  :dontknow:

"Tartaroo" as used by Peter [2 Pet 2:4] in its only appearance in the WORD, alludes to the deepest ABYSS of hades... Does that mean to you that they "dug to China" to bury those in "tartaroo", Lefein?  :dontknow:

2:  God brought order, and stability to the Earth, and its Waters, putting Life on it in the span of six periods of time; literal 24 hour day - or literally symbolic day measuring eons; as God said himself - A day to God is as a thousand years, which is "literally symbolic" language meaning a very, very long time to us, is a short time to God.

Wow!  Could you use your own counsel, and simplify this a bit, Lefein?   :laughing7:

"Literally symbolic"?  Is that like, Long Shortness?  or Empty Fullness? or Heavily Light?  :laugh:

The WORD says that a day (to God) is ...AS... a thousand years... it does NOT SAY, that it IS a thousand years. 

It only describes that TIME resembles and assumes a meaningless position to our INFINITE God, than does TIME's position appear to us ...finites.

Actually, the language more implies [IMObservation]... that TIME is totally irrelevant to God.  Not that a "day" is shorter for Him than for us. 

To VAINLY attempt to tie GOD to ANY parameter, is to try to CONFINE Him.  So any "duration" of a DAY that YOU or I might consider concerning Him, is nothing more than our attempt to CONFINE Him to some aspect of our own limitations.  :thumbdown:

3:  It was Good.

There is very little concerning the "how" and "how long" when you actually look at it, merely statements of "did", he leaves the finding of "how" and "how long" to us to discover...and quite frankly God had no purpose (as his word shows) in telling us the full details of his work, which most likely would not be graspable to us anyway, and certainly not to the early Hebrews who only had scales for weighing bartering goods, and had no concept of microbiology other than God telling them "if you have mildew, clean your house, and leave your poop outside the camp, buried!":  From ISA2

B'racraph bra aleim ath e'shimin u'ath e'artz

in'beginning he-created Elohim >> the'heavens and >> the'earth

u'e'artz eithe theu u'beu u'chshk ol -phini theum u'ruch alehim mrchphth ol phni e'min

and'the'earth she-became chaos and vacancy and'darkness over surfaces-of abyss and spirit-of Elohim vibrating over surfaces-of the'waters

u'iamr aleim iei aur e'iei -aur

and'he-is-saying Elohim he-shall-become light and'he-is-becoming-light

u'ira aleim ath-e'aur ki -tub u'ibdl aleim bin  e'aur u'bin e'chshk

and'he-is-seeing Elohim >> the'light that good and'he-is-separating Elohim between the'light and'between the'darkness

u'iqra aleim l'aur ium u'l'chshk qra lile u'iei -orb u'iei bqr ium achd : p

and'he-is-calling Elohim to'thelight day and'tothe'darkness he-calls night and'he-is-becoming evening and he-is-becoming morning day one.


"ium" is "yom".

You "reprimand" me that my use of COLOR in my responses, and that it presents "hurdles" to you, then you spout complexities that wax chaotic.  :doh:

FIRST --- Why all this beating about the bush?  Come to the point, Lefein... instead of trying to impress with this disjointed ramble.

SECOND --- We do not need to "know microbiology" in order to gain "understanding" of God and His doings... On the contrary --- we need to become AS CHILDREN, to Him... trusting, basic, single minded, ...admitting that we know NOTHING... and thereby seek Him to FILL us with the LOVE of CHRIST that "passes knowledge" -- Eph 3:19

THIRD --- Actually, we in this "modern day" (concerning the Holy and the PERFECT Almighty YHVH) are far MORE degenerate than were the Ancient Hebrews which you so arrogantly, and carelessly discredit, as you bask yourself in the self-adorning light  :beach: of your percieved "educational" position... :rolleye:

Take counsel from your own words, and SIMPLIFY Lefein... SIMPLIFY:

WillieH; please let your yea be yea, and your nay be nay when it comes to your future responses.

 :Peace: :Peace2:

...willieH  :cloud9:

Offline thinktank

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #103 on: September 09, 2010, 11:11:36 PM »
Yes but it is something that needs to be addressed, otherwise it hides in the background that damages our souls. It doesn't do willie any favours, if people are shaking their heads at him and he is wondering why, but yet nobody tells him why. If it is not addressed then division is inevitable as mr smith from the matrix often says.

Offline willieH

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #104 on: September 09, 2010, 11:16:15 PM »
Regarding willieH's posts--

It took me a while to get used to them, but now I consider them a work of art.  I can't imagine how he creates them any more than I can imagine how Rembrandt created the Night Watch.

God did not give me artistic talent, alas... :sigh:  Nor the patience it requires.

But, thankfully, now I am coming to appreciate art more and more.

So to willieH--I appreciate and enjoy your posts, but even more the talent that it takes to create them. :thumbsup:



It's pretty easy how he creates them he just gets a bit mad and stamps the caps lock key  AGAIN AND AGAIN AND THEN THROWS AN INSULT OR TWO, great work of art, to annoy and insult the body of Christ  :thumbsup:

I have never been "mad" at you tank, and am not mad at you now...  :laughing7:

That you are unable to recognize that I use these things as emphasis, only displays a failure to attend to detail.

Besides... you are to FORGIVE and BLESS those which you percieve as enemy to you (annoying and insulting)... so where were those, in this post, ...Mr. "body of Christ"?

I consider that you are often embedded in frustration... and forgive you for this childish tirade...  :friendstu:

:Peace: Bro!

...willieH  :cloud9:

Offline willieH

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #105 on: September 09, 2010, 11:17:57 PM »
Regarding willieH's posts--

It took me a while to get used to them, but now I consider them a work of art.  I can't imagine how he creates them any more than I can imagine how Rembrandt created the Night Watch.

God did not give me artistic talent, alas... :sigh:  Nor the patience it requires.

But, thankfully, now I am coming to appreciate art more and more.

So to willieH--I appreciate and enjoy your posts, but even more the talent that it takes to create them. :thumbsup:

Thank you sister M...  :boyheart:

...willieH  :cloud9:

Offline shawn

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #106 on: September 09, 2010, 11:22:49 PM »
Yes but it is something that needs to be addressed, otherwise it hides in the background that damages our souls. It doesn't do willie any favours, if people are shaking their heads at him and he is wondering why, but yet nobody tells him why. If it is not addressed then division is inevitable as mr smith from the matrix often says.

Agreed...pushing feelings down is not healthy.  With that said, when we attempt to correct a brother we should ask ourselves why we do so.  I'm not so sure my motives are pure as Willie rubs me the wrong way.  That's not Willie's issue...it's mine.  So, I should probably keep my comments to myself about Willie in the future.

Offline willieH

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #107 on: September 09, 2010, 11:33:17 PM »
But I think we might do well to divert now from WillieH, and let God deal with his postwork.

How piously arrogant of you to say this.  :thumbdown: 

Is God not "dealing" with YOU, Lefein?  Or are you not in need of Him any longer?

God has been "dealing" with willieH for 65 years, and loving willieH thru thick & thin, not like SOME that EMPTILY claim to be His followers.  :sigh: (I won't mention any names, simply because they have made themselves evident in this thread.)

I suspect a devil's plot of division, and I don't want to see the devil succeed in dividing the body over a silly issue that will inevitably amend itself.

There is no "devil" except the one that some "Religious" hold as existent.  :thumbdown:   

And as they give this myth an active and living place in their hearts, so do their hearts actively keep this myth alive IN those hearts... actively using it against others...

Matt 7:1 --- JUDGE NOT, that ye BE NOT JUDGED...

Try that "division" shirt on... YOURSELF... If the "shirt fits"... wear it.  :grin: 

I did not seek YOU out to upbraid YOU, ...you appointed yourself to do this to ME, and as we can see, it continues!  :idea2:

...willieH  :cloud9:

Offline willieH

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #108 on: September 09, 2010, 11:40:45 PM »
Yes but it is something that needs to be addressed, otherwise it hides in the background that damages our souls.

The bunch which is preaching the "gospel of death" (ED) or the "gospel of torment" (ET), ...together has pronounced sentence upon me.  :sigh:

It doesn't do willie any favours, if people are shaking their heads at him and he is wondering why, but yet nobody tells him why. If it is not addressed then division is inevitable as mr smith from the matrix often says.

More gossip... speaking unkindly to others of me, instead of "addressing" me, yourself... :rolleye:

Hmmm... "Mr smith from the matrix" is your point of reference, eh?  :sigh:

When seeking to correct another, it is a much better idea to reference the WORD instead of using, ...the "matrix"...

...willieH   :cloud9:

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #109 on: September 09, 2010, 11:56:11 PM »
NO!  SIN was NOT ...IN... the WORLD until it ...ENTERED... via ADAM.  

The Scripture does not say that SIN was IN the world, then ENTERED via ADAM...  Which is what you are trying to manufacture.

It says AFTER the notation that SIN ENTERED via ADAM... that it was already IN the world... for it had ENTERED via ADAM!

The LAW which ADAM transgressed BEFORE it was given, is the LAW of MOSES... which indicates SIN --- as is noted by James 2:11-12 -- which is the LAW of liberty from which JUDGMENT proceeds.

SIN could NOT be ...IN... the world [creation], until it ...ENTERED it.  Which it DID... via ADAM... :nod:

...willieH  :happygrin:
It's not that hard to understand I think...
Lemme explain with a more worldly example.
In teh USA it's a crime to download movies. Where I live it's perfectly legal. Same activity but for some it's illegal (sin) for others not.
But if copyright laws change here downloading movies becomes illegal (sin)
Those that lived before the new download law didn't break the law. Those that live after the new download law and still download are breaking that law.
Adam was the first man that after the new law still downloaded. The download sin entered via Adam.

SIN means "missing the mark"... God is "Gloriously" PERFECT, as are His COMMANDS, as are His standards = the "mark".   :idea2:  

In coming up short of "the mark", we "MISS" it...  :sigh:

SIN entered by ADAM "missing the mark" of PERFECTION... all subsequent humans which came AFTER the one who "missed FIRST"... "miss" as well.

Nevertheless the FIRST man, was the vehicle in which SIN entered the Creation.

...willieH  :happygrin:
Almost right willie.
Sin is not missing the mark of perfection.
Sin is missing the mark of declared perfection.

Not keeping the Sabbath is missing the mark. But that started when God declared Sabbath.
Moses wrote down 600+ laws. Not following them was/is missing the mark after Moses notified his people of those laws.

So it's not just the act of doing something that makes things sinful. It's the act of doing something after God declared He is against such an act.
My point is that sin entering through Adam can't be used as proof for the age of the earth. I agree with you that we can trace geneaoloy to 6000 years to one view. 10000 years is another view. A little longer (speaking of a few 1000 years not milions) to another view. So that 6000-10000+ years is the minimum age of the earth. Adam died at the age of 900 years. Those 900 years started as his birth/creation not at Genesis 1:1.
And I think that's what this thread is about. Not if sin entered the world (through Adam), because all agree with that. The question is how much time is there between Genesis 1:1 and the creation/birth of Adam. I think billions of years. You think a few days.
My question to you is what proof of "a few days" you have? (of a total of about 6-10 thousand years).
Again I repeat I'm not claiming there are billions of years between now and creation of Adam.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2010, 01:09:59 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #110 on: September 09, 2010, 11:56:45 PM »

Bottom line on Willies posts everyone , as far as I am concerned, who are we to tell Willie to not use smilies and color?

None of that makes Willie right or wrong,  if you disagree with Willie stick to the facts, pointing out that you do not like the way he formats his posts is not a factor that makes him less correct.   That's just the facts.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #111 on: September 10, 2010, 12:04:22 AM »
Quick insert.  (I should know better than to stick my nose in this).   :laughing7:

We talked about the gap theory in Genesis a couple of weeks ago. 

Would it be worth considering, that Greek Interlinear has 'kosmon', which is typically translated as 'world', translated first as 'SYSTEM' - then it's turned into/translated 'world'?

Also, the related word 'kosmos' also has these definitions, besides 'world';

kosmos - condition of orderliness, orderly arrangement, order  3. the sum total of everything here and now, the world, the (orderly) universe, in philosophical usage   4. the sum total of all beings above the level of the animals

Anything there to possibly broaden the scope of interpretation?
I think the answer is no. I agree with what you wrote but it won't help in this discussion. I, and I think I can safely include Shawn, think that the kosmos/system is billions of years older than planet earth. For Willie that's obiously not the case because he estimated the age of the whole creation between about 6-10 thousand years.
So even if there is full agreement on the meaning of kosmos/kosmon there is no agreement on the time span involved.
I hope I summarized everybodies opinion correctly in this message.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Lefein

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #112 on: September 10, 2010, 12:10:28 AM »
{Moderator Edit}

Quote
The Bible only does three things regarding the Genesis account of Creation:

1: State as fact - In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth, the Earth was formless and void, and the Godhead was present over the waters, which where yet to be ordered into atmosphere - liquid ocean.

Sorry, but the "godhead" is not mentioned in Genesis 1...  The word Elohim is used in Gen 1 -- Elohim, though a plural form, does not imply PLURALITY in being.  No more than the word "YOU" as I address YOU... means that YOU are more than 1 being.  You wear plural hats (son, grandson, husband, brother, friend, uncle, etc) but YOU remain ONE being.

...Now you're just being contradictory for the sake of being contradictory.

There is only one God!  And God does not change!  Behold the following verses:

Col 2:9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:2  The same was in the beginning with God.

John 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

The Godhead was indeed present!  At the beginning; at Genesis.

Quote
The Earth in essence, was Crust and some form of chaotic vapourous covering, over which God was present having made it that way - preparing to order it.

This is an ASSUMPTION... the WORD does not mention that either the "WATERS" or the Earth mentioned in Gen 1:1 -- were physical in nature.  They were EMERGING from a SPIRIT... so in that process, their "beginning" was more likely SPIRITUAL, than PHYSICAL (though I, as you, cannot PROVE this to be so).

Not everything in the Bible has to be "spiritualised" for goodness sakes, wine can be wine, and water can be water.  Context!

Just because the acts of God carry a deep spiritual meaning, does not negate the fact that there is a physical aspect to his doings too!

His miracles are not vapourous philosophy!  They are acts of power!  Made manifest in our physical realm, as well as the spiritual reality amidst it.

Quote
When CHRIST speaks of the "drinking of the WATER of life"... neither the "water" nor the "drinking" of it, ...can be considered a PHYSICAL act, even though it's "doing" quenches the "thirst" (which isn't PHYSICAL either) of the SPIRIT within...

The context alludes to it being spiritual in this case.  In the case of Genesis: It alludes to a physical act primarily - "Let light be!" does not mean only (providing that a spiritual meaning is there indeed, which I am sure there is) that some vapourous philosophical illumination came to be, it means quite literally "Light be!"

Quote
The "deep" mentioned in this verse aludes to ABYSS... an ABYSS can be SPIRITUAL in nature as well as PHYSICAL.  :dontknow:

Why not both...?

Quote
"Tartaroo" as used by Peter [2 Pet 2:4] in its only appearance in the WORD, alludes to the deepest ABYSS of hades... Does that mean to you that they "dug to China" to bury those in "tartaroo", Lefein?  :dontknow:

Follow the context...

Quote
2:  God brought order, and stability to the Earth, and its Waters, putting Life on it in the span of six periods of time; literal 24 hour day - or literally symbolic day measuring eons; as God said himself - A day to God is as a thousand years, which is "literally symbolic" language meaning a very, very long time to us, is a short time to God.

Wow!  Could you use your own counsel, and simplify this a bit, Lefein?   :laughing7:

Get thee behind me Satan.  Your laughter rooted from a wounded pride is not welcome, and neither is your abrasiveness.

Quote
"Literally symbolic"?  Is that like, Long Shortness?  or Empty Fullness? or Heavily Light?  :laugh:

Twice behind, your laughter is not welcome.

Literally Symbolic is a term that God himself gave to me!  If you must know...

It means quite simply that God uses symbolic language to describe literal events, it is a phrase he gave me to indeed simplify, to name that concept.

Quote
The WORD says that a day (to God) is ...AS... a thousand years... it does NOT SAY, that it IS a thousand years.

It only describes that TIME resembles and assumes a meaningless position to our INFINITE God, than does TIME's position appear to us ...finites.

Actually, the language more implies [IMObservation]... that TIME is totally irrelevant to God.  Not that a "day" is shorter for Him than for us.

Then it only bolsters the fact that the six days could be however long God wanted them to be!  It could be whole epochs and life ages of the universe in a single second of that "24-hour day" if God so desired it, showing the literal-literal view of YEC's measurement of Genesis's Yom's to be even less important, or absolute than they make it out to be.

Quote
To VAINLY attempt to tie GOD to ANY parameter, is to try to CONFINE Him.  So any "duration" of a DAY that YOU or I might consider concerning Him, is nothing more than our attempt to CONFINE Him to some aspect of our own limitations.  :thumbdown:

...This is becoming silly, and becoming silly fast.

Of course we can't limit the infinite God into a finite box, but that isn't what we're discussing here! >_<

{MODERATOR EDIT}
« Last Edit: September 10, 2010, 06:45:31 AM by reFORMer »
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #113 on: September 10, 2010, 12:11:31 AM »
There is no scripture that states or implies the earth is only 6000 years old.

The intepretation is based upon a strict assertion that creation all actually happened in a literal week.   There are no scriptures that verify the truth of this timeline, it is religiously asserted the same way it is in this thread.
Yes and no.
There is much proof the universe is 6-10 thousand years old from a Biblical view. Just trace geneaology and add a few extra days. So that's proof.
So purely using an English translation the earth is 6-10000 years old.
But.... the days before Adam can also be translated as ages as for example Strong and Thayer show in their concordances.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline shawn

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #114 on: September 10, 2010, 12:13:00 AM »

Bottom line on Willies posts everyone , as far as I am concerned, who are we to tell Willie to not use smilies and color?

None of that makes Willie right or wrong,  if you disagree with Willie stick to the facts, pointing out that you do not like the way he formats his posts is not a factor that makes him less correct.   That's just the facts.


I actually agree.  The only problem is when he gets upset because someone doesn't answer his questions.  Me personally, I just can't bring myself to sort through it all.  So, I hope he doesn't get offended when I don't read it...or answer his questions. 

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #115 on: September 10, 2010, 12:15:35 AM »
I will throw this bit of info out there. Its been said that "sin entered in via Adam" and if that is the case, and Paul says it as well; but why is it that the FIRST time SIN is mentioned is in accordance with CAIN not Adam?
Good point. Perhaps because the "entering" is about the offspring of Adam.
In a way Cain entered the world via Adam (and Eve) because they decided to have children.

Actually GOD decided that they would have children...
Agreed.
But I hope you see that post of mine was not about who decided that Adam and Eve would have children...
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline shawn

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #116 on: September 10, 2010, 12:22:43 AM »
So, again do you guys think man walked with dinosaurs?  If so, what evidence do you have for your belief?  If not, how do you explain the death of dinosaurs before man with a literal interpretation of Genesis?

Offline thinktank

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #117 on: September 10, 2010, 12:24:20 AM »
Yes but it is something that needs to be addressed, otherwise it hides in the background that damages our souls.

The bunch which is preaching the "gospel of death" (ED) or the "gospel of torment" (ET), ...together has pronounced sentence upon me.  :sigh:

It doesn't do willie any favours, if people are shaking their heads at him and he is wondering why, but yet nobody tells him why. If it is not addressed then division is inevitable as mr smith from the matrix often says.

More gossip... speaking unkindly to others of me, instead of "addressing" me, yourself... :rolleye:

Hmmm... "Mr smith from the matrix" is your point of reference, eh?  :sigh:

When seeking to correct another, it is a much better idea to reference the WORD instead of using, ...the "matrix"...

...willieH   :cloud9:

I think you have been addressed before by UR people , when you got banned from here, so this is not a ED conspiracy.

Also not sure if that post counts as gossip, for it can be seen by all, including you. This is not the manner I would have liked to address this, but this is how things have played out.

I do have a problem with your style and I thought why not be a good christian and be tolerant, but it seems that I'm not the only one who find your style, offensive. Do you count this as a message that your style needs to be improved upon? That there are three people here who find your style offensive?

Now we are the three that open our mouths, how many out there hidden in cyberspace, gossip behind your back and say bad things about you, this is my concern. If this is merely my problem then I guess there is not much of a problem but if, as I suspect your style offends a large amount of people, then I ask the question, doesn't this bother you?

As Christians we are to be tolerant towards each other but also to help one another.

Also I think you rely too much upon the word, the living word is one who we should rely upon first, then the scriptures.


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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #118 on: September 10, 2010, 12:26:07 AM »

Bottom line on Willies posts everyone , as far as I am concerned, who are we to tell Willie to not use smilies and color?

None of that makes Willie right or wrong,  if you disagree with Willie stick to the facts, pointing out that you do not like the way he formats his posts is not a factor that makes him less correct.   That's just the facts.


I actually agree.  The only problem is when he gets upset because someone doesn't answer his questions.  Me personally, I just can't bring myself to sort through it all.  So, I hope he doesn't get offended when I don't read it...or answer his questions. 


We are free to spend the time we want on anyone's post, whether they get offended or assert that they win,  the problem is the other persons.   Just keep that in mind when you make your choices of what to do.


Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #119 on: September 10, 2010, 12:26:26 AM »
Regarding willieH's posts--

It took me a while to get used to them, but now I consider them a work of art.  I can't imagine how he creates them any more than I can imagine how Rembrandt created the Night Watch.

God did not give me artistic talent, alas... :sigh:  Nor the patience it requires.

But, thankfully, now I am coming to appreciate art more and more.

So to willieH--I appreciate and enjoy your posts, but even more the talent that it takes to create them. :thumbsup:



It's pretty easy how he creates them he just gets a bit mad and stamps the caps lock key  AGAIN AND AGAIN AND THEN THROWS AN INSULT OR TWO, great work of art, to annoy and insult the body of Christ  :thumbsup:
Poetic justice :laughing7:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #120 on: September 10, 2010, 12:29:38 AM »
I myself was not too fond of this...
Weird. It was concise. No caps. No colors. No big fonts. No neon. And only one smilie. So......?
 :bgdance:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Lefein

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #121 on: September 10, 2010, 12:40:12 AM »
EDIT: I am no longer going to discuss WillieH if I can help it.

Stay tuned for a better post that is on topic.
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #122 on: September 10, 2010, 12:47:23 AM »
Please dear brother... I have been a member here, posting as I do in excess of 7 years... Many answer me "properly"!  What does color within text, have to do with comprehension?
Come on Willie. Do you really not understand that?
Many people have problems reading text of this size. Even is the size doesn't change the wisdom or foolishness of the words.
No that's not a dotted line. Just qoute the text and see :laughing7:
Yellow on white is hard to read for many people. Sometimes so hard all there concentration goes into reading it instead of understanding the message
Willie you are a musician and you like gospel songs. Correct?
Say a band has a song with some possibly good lyrics. But if the vocals and instumentals are awfully bad doesn't that distract you from hearing the (possible) wisdom contained in the lyrics?

I really think a few colors/bold/italics/underlined in a post can and often do improve readability. But there is a point of  overdoing things and it become counter effective. A daily glass of red wine is good for the heart. But 20 glasses a day isn't 20x better.
Cheers :beach:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline jabcat

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #123 on: September 10, 2010, 12:54:32 AM »
Let's please work on moving this back towards the OP.  If there are a couple of quick comments to tie up any loose ends/complete any unfinished business, etc., OK, I understand and it could be productive.  However, we're pretty far off-topic  :bigGrin:.  Thanks.  
« Last Edit: September 10, 2010, 01:07:51 AM by jabcat »
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Split, Creation - Science, Faith, Literal/Symbolic, etc.
« Reply #124 on: September 10, 2010, 12:58:33 AM »
Yes but it is something that needs to be addressed, otherwise it hides in the background that damages our souls. It doesn't do willie any favours, if people are shaking their heads at him and he is wondering why, but yet nobody tells him why. If it is not addressed then division is inevitable as mr smith from the matrix often says.

Agreed...pushing feelings down is not healthy.  With that said, when we attempt to correct a brother we should ask ourselves why we do so.  I'm not so sure my motives are pure as Willie rubs me the wrong way.  That's not Willie's issue...it's mine.  So, I should probably keep my comments to myself about Willie in the future.
That would mean groups of people start ignoring posts of other groups of people. That's not the goal of this forum.
Better would be if Willie used less colors and stuff to make his posts more readeble to others. And you use a few extra colors to make your key points stick out.
Of course that includes all other 900 users. It's better to have a discussion group of 900 people than 10 sub groups of each 90 people.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...