Creation - Science/Faith AND (part of) Genesis, MERGED

[eaglesway]

 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope(a forward view not an inconclusive wish) that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
(Rom 8:20-21)

It is clear to me that Adam was set up, and that God is way ahead of the game. He causes all things to work according to the counsel of His own will.

...just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.
(Eph 1:4-6)

[Beloved Servant]

Amen eaglesway.

Adam is not inherently evil.

It's about our overcoming all that is contradictory to God.

Man's will must be put to rest before the image of God can shine safely and eternally through him — one Elohim!

[Cardinal]

  Out of the heart of man proceedeth.....

[Beloved Servant]

lol,
it wasn't the apple it was the Eve.

[eaglesway]

Westerners(especially Americans :o) seem to think they invented everything. Our Christianity has very shallow roots.
It barely reaches back to Luther, much less past the Nicene convention, then through the anti-Nicene fathers, and apostles. And certainly not into its Hebrew roots and the teachings of the rabbis. Those teachings provide echoes of the theology of Israel and the cosmology of ancients. They believed that the judgment would end in in punishments of various terms for the wicked and "olam ha-ba" for the righteous- a banquet hall, a life of joy and peace. Many of them also believed in the inclusion of the righteous goyim. The Hebrews understood the righteous and merciful discernment of God before Christ. Paul, a rabbi himself, echoes this teaching in Acts 17 and Romans 1&2.

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
(Joh 1:9-10)

For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
(Act 17:28)


For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
(Rom 1:20)


For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
(Rom 2:14-16)

Now we have a dispensational gospel that judges men by dates and scraps of knowledge, rather than by the testimony of the Lord concerning their heart, & whether their deeds were good- or evil. And since all of us are hopelessly theologically evil, we must receive God in (their) prescribed way, and they decide who will live and who will burn forever by their theological precepts.

It kinda sounds like the Pharisees to me.

Woe unto you Pharisees, for you hold the keys of knowledge and you refuse to go in and prevent those who would from entering.


http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/426712/olam-ha-ze

[Cardinal]

lol,
it wasn't the apple it was the Eve.

  Exactly....the root of the tree was the stony heart (Eve) of Adam, that God took out of him to show him what was in his heart, just like He told the Israelites He took them out into the wilderness to show them what was in their hearts. And lo and behold, it had only "improved" slightly from their water baptism in the wilderness, as it was a golden calf (the best works flesh had to offer).

What gets me is the lame excuse of how they said it came out of the fire, LOL. Forgot about the 4th man in Daniel, or I wonder if time-wise that hadn't happened yet?   I'm not up to speed on the chronological list of events in there.

If it had happened yet, it looks like to me they were dodging going thru the fire themselves and just thought "maybe He wouldn't notice" the 800 lb. gorilla in the room, LOL. Blessings....

[Molly]

It kinda sounds like the Pharisees to me.

We are still being ruled by the Pharisees.  That's why the religion is 'shallow' as you put it.  They like it that way.  They train us up that way.  That is how they rule.  They control every piece of 'approved' information we are exposed to--you think they don't control the big churches?  Of course they do.

This is the antichrist--against Christ, against people, against life itself.  Antichrist is the ruler of this age.

Everything out of their mouths is lies--just like Jesus said.  And, the one they worship is the father of lies.  Thus, religion is shallow, history is shallow, science is shallow--how else can they control it?

What new piece of theatre are they going to spring on us?  world war 3?  great depression 2?  invasion by 'aliens'?  false flag 2?  How about the rapture?  All Christians disappear at 3am--raptured!



Jesus said, [If you love me,] Feed my sheep.

[eaglesway]

Amen!

If you continue in my word, you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.

By this the world will kno you are my disciples, by your love for one another.

Hebrews 13:10-16
     Do not be carried away by varied and strange teachings; for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, through which those who were so occupied were not benefited.
    We have an altar from which those who serve the tabernacle(earthly house) have no right to eat.

     Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people through His own blood, suffered outside the gate. So,
1) let us go out to Him outside the camp, bearing His reproach. For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the city which is to come. Through Him then,
2)let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that give thanks to His name. And   3)do not neglect doing good and sharing, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.

[Cardinal]

  Amen, Molly.....I don't know what thread it was, but Beloved said something that really struck a chord in me this week......until we are in His rest, it IS all warfare, and so it will continue to be all warfare "out there" regardless of whether or not WE are at rest. IMO, this is what we are being prepared for, ie. to bring the others into His rest. Blessings....

[Molly]

Amen, Molly.....I don't know what thread it was, but Beloved said something that really struck a chord in me this week......until we are in His rest, it IS all warfare, and so it will continue to be all warfare "out there" regardless of whether or not WE are at rest. IMO, this is what we are being prepared for, ie. to bring the others into His rest. Blessings....

Rest is good.  But, can't we just win the war and be done with it? lol

Why is it necessary to live like this?

And how is it possible to have rest when people are dying daily?

[Beloved Servant]

I die daily, for it is not I that live — but Christ  — Who is the Sabbath Rest.

In this rest the war is won through Peace that surpasses all understanding.

A kick against the goad prolongs our own pain and that of anxious creation.

[Beloved Servant]

Amen?

We are not only running this race for ourselves. We are running to win freedom for all creation.

Selfishness dies with self.

We have a job do to that's the most simple and at the same time the most difficult thing to do.

And that is nothing.

Just wait on the Lord.

Be still and know that He is God.

And that includes rendering still the images and idols that only exist in our mind — the battleground!

[thinktank]

It kinda sounds like the Pharisees to me.

We are still being ruled by the Pharisees.  That's why the religion is 'shallow' as you put it.  They like it that way.  They train us up that way.  That is how they rule.  They control every piece of 'approved' information we are exposed to--you think they don't control the big churches?  Of course they do.

This is the antichrist--against Christ, against people, against life itself.  Antichrist is the ruler of this age.

Everything out of their mouths is lies--just like Jesus said.  And, the one they worship is the father of lies.  Thus, religion is shallow, history is shallow, science is shallow--how else can they control it?

What new piece of theatre are they going to spring on us?  world war 3?  great depression 2?  invasion by 'aliens'?  false flag 2?  How about the rapture?  All Christians disappear at 3am--raptured!



Jesus said, [If you love me,] Feed my sheep.

I see your point, even though the above events may happen, religions uses these events to cause endless fear in Gods people, distracting people from the more important things in life.

I have been an end time fanatic for many years, even before being a christian and it does not bring much fruit, perhaps an apple here and an orange there but no bunch of bananas or grapes. It is refreshing to be here at this forum where christians don't point to every earthquake in the news and say the "end is nigh". They been saying it's the end for last century, but to me I know the end is nigh so I either live in fear or I live the christian life, and when the tribulation starts trust God will tell me, because when relying on people, every year they say the tribulation is "here" or this president is the antichrist, but another year goes by. Now they say obama is the antichrist  lets name every president the antichrist 

[Cardinal]

   Don't you just hate that when they do that? I just can't listen to it, it grieves my spirit when they point to every catastrophe as being THE one to "end it all". Seems like all those of that mindset do is look for signs instead of Him.  Blessings....

[eaglesway]

Anyone who has entered God's rest has ceased from is/her own works even as God ceased from His- that is when we enter those works that were prepared from the foundation of the world, that we should walk in them. What I do for me by my own compass is my work. What I do for others by my own compass is often my work(whether I realize it or not). What I do for Him that is beyond my will and ability, that is the finished work....works that will abide into eternity. Repentance from dead works, the first foundation- wonder if I'll ever get there :o)

[Beloved Servant]

That was stunning.

[WhiteWings]

Aslo don't forge the implications. If God created humanity via evolution, then that means we are nothing more than evolved developed chemical formulas and not beings made in the image of God.

I think you shouldn't take that image to literal.
Can you even mention one thing in which we look like God? And if you can isn't there so much difference between the image and the original that it isn't similar at all.
For example is God made out of dust?
God just said He created us out of dust. He didn't mention a duration and process.
Evolution truely turns (star)dust into man, animals, plants etc.
TT eats cows. Cows eat grass. Grass eats dust.

[Molly]

Can you even mention one thing in which we look like God?

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
--Gen 1

let them have dominion ...over all the earth...



22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:
--Gen 3


Jesus looks like a man and looks like the Father.


John 14:9
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?


we shall be like him

[Beloved Servant]

Can you even mention one thing in which we look like God?

Yes, the Lord Jesus Christ, lest we never forget.

[eaglesway]

Gen 1:26  Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness.......
Gen 1:27  God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Gen 9:6  "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man.

Rom 8:29  For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

2Co 3:18  But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

[micah7:9]

"Can you even mention one thing in which we look like God?"
 I dont believe that any of those verses answer that question, except in ones mind as the individual. My
Joh 1:18

(ASV) No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

(KJV)  No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

(WNT)  No human eye has ever seen God: the only Son, who is in the Father's bosom--He has made Him known.

(YLT) God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father--he did declare.

[WhiteWings]

Gen 1:26  Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness.......
Gen 1:27  God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Gen 9:6  "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man.

Rom 8:29  For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

2Co 3:18  But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

I know those verses but they in no way answer TT's claim/thought

Aslo don't forge the implications. If God created humanity via evolution, then that means we are nothing more than evolved developed chemical formulas and not beings made in the image of God.

Verses only speak about image, but don't define what exactly that image is like. Was it created instantly? Or with many intermediate steps? Is the image about looks? Brain? Character?

[Molly]

Verses only speak about image, but don't define what exactly that image is like. Was it created instantly? Or with many intermediate steps? Is the image about looks? Brain? Character?

God could be 'creating' man in his image as we speak.  But that has nothing to do with the theory of evolution which states that man is descended from monkeys.

Genesis 1 makes it clear that God created the animals discretely--not throgh evolution.

So, if I understand TT's point correctly, he is saying that man from the beginning was being created in God's image, not descended from monkeys.

Then you ask, is the image about looks, brain, character?--yes all of that and more.  God created man as a package which is greater than the sum of its parts.  In the image of God he created him.

[eaglesway]

The image , IMO, is primarily about the divine nature...

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
(Rom 1:20)

In the beginning was the Word(logos- expressed thought)- Jesus came out of the Father, to reveal the Father, by BEING WHO HE IS. YHWH says I AM THAT I AM, Jesus says before Abraham was I AM.

...in these last days(YHWH) has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power.  
(Heb 1:2-3)

If you have seen me you have seen the Father, I and my Father are one...

Jesus is the image of God and we are being conformed to His image

For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
(Rom 8:29)

But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
(2Co 3:18)

This is primarily about BEING. Our being is what was created in His likeness, was subjected to futility, and is now being "made new",

Col 3:10  and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him--

The one new man is being made new, recreated, restored in the image of the being/nature of the one through whom YHWH created everyone who comes into the world.

 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.
(2Pe 1:2-4)

The true knowledge is always about "being"- IMO their is nothing more consistent in Jesus' teaching than that.

[Molly]

...who called us by His own glory and excellence.

Isn't that the truth!  And it makes me so sad--those who cannot see it, but they can't.

We are really blessed.