Author Topic: Col. 1: 20 is conditional salvation.  (Read 4970 times)

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Offline micah7:9

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Re: Col. 1: 20 is conditional salvation.
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2012, 07:52:30 PM »
HUMMMMMM? Sounds much like the "debate we await." :Chinscratch:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline dajomaco

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Re: Col. 1: 20 is conditional salvation.
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2012, 08:09:46 PM »
IMO
While it is still called today.
Enter into the reconciliation that Jesus as won for us once and for all time.

Offline sheila

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Re: Col. 1: 20 is conditional salvation.
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2012, 08:59:53 PM »
Rev ch 2..Jesus as the shepherd keeps careful eyes on His flock.   He always knows the appearance of His sheep

  and here in ch 2 you see Him giving counsel..and commendation as the shepherd...

    dragonbreath is doctrines of Balaam..for instance..or floodwaters of accusation against men .

    typical babylon of cursing[of which He told me I had when I first came out]

      He knows our deeds[these deeds are faith in Him and how we have believed.  some's deeds..

   are faith in Him basically dead[deeds incomplete]...the seven churches of the spirit of faith in Jesus Christ

  are various states spiritually that believers in Him are.....

   He WANTS YOUR FAITH IN HIM[deeds] TO OVERCOME THIS WORLD!  He says 'Fear not..for I HAVE OVERCOME

  THE WORLD"  Completely victorious is He...He HAS TOLD YOU...DO YOU BELIEVE HIM[FAITH] IN ALL OF

  IT[FAITH_FULL} PART OF IT[LACKING FAITH}Christ FAILED man doomed/hopeless[faithless]


  for instance Balaam...called on to curse Isreal[when God only blessed them]  bless curse not...

   God saw no evil in Isreal.   Finally only through seducing into fornication was any evil/wickedness seen

  in Isreal[so,it is another spirit of Baalam to  see any wickedness in Israel...an enticing into spiritual
 
  fornication..will cause you to see this result..and cause you to curse instead of bless Isreal[mankind with

  sins not counted against them/blotted out..and receive eternal promises/land.]

    Rewards/commendations come from these deeds[belief in Christ] of faith.....shown thusly...

   well done...you have been faithul in a few things..............reward given...enter into the joy of your Master

   there is JOY/VICTORY  in faith for overcomers...and there's woe/lossfor those overcome[the saints were

  overcome/Daniel]  no one could live who accepted the mark of the beast...for a beast is stoned if it

  touch the mountain of God[promises][all men are beasts/mark of beast..vs sons of God[blessing or cursing]

...but look...there are men standing on the promises of Mt Zion..

  singing a song of victory and salvation..who overcome by the testimony of Jesus...singing..salvation we

  owe unto God and the Lamb..[people who believe He took away all the sin from man and confess that

  with their tongue[song]......

    Now Jesus said..Let it occurr to you according to your faith.........so those without faith will not overcome in this life

  or believe unto the salvation of their souls...but will be saved,nontheless at their resurrection....instead

  of having life more abundantly now[Sarah's seed]...they are reckoned as good as a dead man[name alive=to be raised

  up in Christ fullness..but spiritually dead through lack of faith].[fell to earth and died..must receive of reign[rain]

  of Christ coming on the clouds to grow towards heaven./be raised up.[of which Christ reigns over death,also,

  and so 'death' is required to give them up unto Christ]]

   you have one hour workers..'the hour is coming,and is now, when all those asleep in their graves will her the voice

 ofthe son of Godand come out'.[evidently they 'heard' him in faith and obeyed

 and those who work all day[deeds/belief/faithin Him]..  the continue endure in faith group]

..eternal life belongs to God..it is His to give.  we must not have 'wicked eyes'


  Unbelievers are outside...the gates are always open..but the veil of unbelief/prince of this world...

hinders them from entering in.  For this reason Jesus told religious leaders they did not go in..and

  hindered those who were.BLIND PHARISEE'S

    God has an appointed time when He will remove that shroud of covering from off the face of all the people's

  only God knows that day and hour.  Each will enter in..in his own order.....


   orders of tribes based on 12 sons..12 apostels,twelve foundations.............Joseph seated his brothers

  in their 'birth' orders....and so,too,Christ seats the sons of God in the Holy city in their Birth from Above order.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Col. 1: 20 is conditional salvation.
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2012, 09:29:36 PM »
HUMMMMMM? Sounds much like the "debate we await." :Chinscratch:

No debates.  How about "it's like the discussion to which we're a'rushin'?   :LH:

[although we're slowly rushin'.  John'll be in the house soon.]
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline dajomaco

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Re: Col. 1: 20 is conditional salvation.
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2012, 10:07:33 PM »
HUMMMMMM? Sounds much like the "debate we await." :Chinscratch:

No debates.  How about "it's like the discussion to which we're a'rushin'?   :LH:

[although we're slowly rushin'.  John'll be in the house soon.]

Debate each other ?
Commune with each other?

I hope you are not suggesting we  start "rushin commune"

Offline scarletwren

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Re: Col. 1: 20 is conditional salvation.
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2013, 10:14:44 PM »
If you want to live in God's love "under conditions", that's totally fine, but I'm not so sure doing it is something God requires.  Love is unconditional.  Salvation is a gift motivated by that love.  So, if the love is unconditional, how can it be that the gift of salvation is not?  Now, on the other hand, I still would continue to add, because people think that believing in UR is still a free pass to live a godless life now cuz we're all saved in the end . . .a totally selfish perspective as far as I'm concerned and it reveals who it is in those people that's truly doing the talking . . .and it ain't the Spirit of God that's in them.  But truth is, there are consequences for our actions.  That might be what's confusing the matter about "conditions". 

Like . . ."I can stay dry "under the condition" that I avoid getting caught in the rain.  That's really not how salvation works, by "conditions" salvation "is" an unconditional gift poured out of unconditional love.  But should we choose to live by "our" selfish choices, it's not conditions that come into play, it's consequences.  I can be dry, I can be wet . . .there's no condemnation in either one, but there are consequences.  If being wet is a bad thing and I choose to run outside in a down pour . . .the consequences are, I'm gonna get wet.  That's how this realm works . . .by consequences. 

Salvation is still there for us to abide in, it's not a condition that we must accept before we die so afterwards we won't go to hell . . .Salvation is an enablement of forgiving power and a release of heavenly promises for me NOW . . .if I don't give the invitation, the consequences are, I continue going through this life bound and controlled by carnality in me.

I totally agree, I think, lol

Offline FineLinen

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Re: Col. 1: 20 is conditional salvation.
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2013, 12:07:20 AM »
John 6:29

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

 29Jesus answered and said to them, `This is the work of God, that ye may believe in him whom He did send.'


Therefore Col. 1: 20 does not state that all WILL be saved, but all who believe and only those who hold on to the faith will be saved.

Ok Refute!   :icon_joker:

You are right in one respect, Col 1:20 declares the ta panta/ the all will be reconciled.

Reconciled=

To cause to be friendly again

To conciliate anew

To bring back into harmony

To cause to no longer be at variance

To bring to acquiescence/ bring to content or quiet submission

To bring to agreement

To call back into fellowship

To adjust the way you think

To adjust/ to settle

To cause to submit

To re-establish a close relationship

To settle/ to harmonize/ to make compatible

To bring together. To conciliate. To re-unite. To adjust. To resign oneself to.

Yes indeed, our God has purposed to reconcile the all/ the ta panta back into Himself!

***NOT panta minus ta (nearly all), but ta (the) joined with panta (all.)

Robertson Word Pictures

Quote
ta panta (the all things, the universe) as if the universe were somehow out of harmony reminds us of the mystical passage in Romans 8:19-23. Sin somehow has put the universe out of joint. Christ will set it right. Unto himself (ei auton).  -Robertson Word Pictures

Quote
Institutional Christianity. The church is his body is addicted to the idea that for things to work out right between us and God, "we have to do our part," and if we do, then "God will do His part." That makes God dependent upon us "getting it right" before He can get on with His purpose and will. 

At the heart of our flesh's alienation from God, at the heart of our blindness and ignorance, is the desire to get credited for "holding up our part of the deal." We like the idea of grace, as long as the successful operation of grace is attributable to us "letting God" do what He wants to do.
- John Gavazzoni-

"He is the agent and the goal of all creation. He exists before everything else, and everything else holds together in him. The Church is His Body and He is its Head.  He is its beginning for He was the first to return from the dead, which means that there is no part of the universe in which the topmost place is not His, for by God's own decision, God in all His completeness made His home in Him.  More, it was God's decision to effect through Him an act of universal reconciliation to Himself of everything in heaven and on earth, and it was through His death on the cross that God did bring the whole universe into a right relationship with Himself.

Once you were estranged from God; your minds were hostile; your conduct was evil, but now the situation has changed.  God has changed your enmity into friendship to Himself by the incarnation and death of His Son, and has thus brought you into His own presence, dedicated, innocent and blameless, provided that you remain firmly founded in the faith immoveable in the hope of the gospel which you have heard." -Dr. William Barclay-



« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 03:29:31 PM by FineLinen »
In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;.... down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

Offline sheila

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Re: Col. 1: 20 is conditional salvation.
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2013, 04:58:41 PM »
no,it's not conditional salvation....it's the salvation of our condition of alienation from Him.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Col. 1: 20 is conditional salvation.
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2013, 05:42:06 PM »
"RE".....one can't be "re'd" without having been there. :dsunny:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline JBerton

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Re: Col. 1: 20 is conditional salvation.
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2013, 06:08:59 PM »
In my mind I see it like this:
     There is no hell, or anything for that matter, to be saved from.
     We are not saved from, but for - we are saved as one saves money - for a purpose (to be a priestly nation to God).
     As a result of salvation, we are not sent to the lake of (figurative) fire, a temporary, loving, corrective punishment designed to purify the unfaithful.
     Most of humanity will be sent to the lake of fire for purification because they were not faithful, and therefore not set aside for the special purpose.
     As for whether salvation is conditional or not, in light of the above, it definitely IS! IMO.
     I believe in universal reconciliation, not universal salvation (in the sense the I laid out above).

How can you be set aside for the purpose of being a part of the priestly nation to God if you are not faithful to the end.
What good is it if you are faithful part of your life, then abandon the Way to follow self-will?
You would have to be purified before you could be brought before the Father.
IMO the scriptures definitely teach that salvation is conditional upon being faithful and steadfast to the end.
That doesn't mean that you lose your salvation if you make mistakes.
We all make mistakes.
But there is a huge difference between being faithful yet making mistakes, and blatantly abandoning the Way to follow self-will.

     
:Book: NEVER STOP SEARCHING! :Chinscratch: