Apologetics - Universal Reconciliation > Arguments Against Universal Salvation

Col. 1: 20 is conditional salvation.

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--- Quote from: Nathan on August 24, 2011, 04:48:18 PM ---If you want to live in God's love "under conditions", that's totally fine, but I'm not so sure doing it is something God requires.  Love is unconditional.  Salvation is a gift motivated by that love.  So, if the love is unconditional, how can it be that the gift of salvation is not?  Now, on the other hand, I still would continue to add, because people think that believing in UR is still a free pass to live a godless life now cuz we're all saved in the end . . .a totally selfish perspective as far as I'm concerned and it reveals who it is in those people that's truly doing the talking . . .and it ain't the Spirit of God that's in them.  But truth is, there are consequences for our actions.  That might be what's confusing the matter about "conditions". 

Like . . ."I can stay dry "under the condition" that I avoid getting caught in the rain.  That's really not how salvation works, by "conditions" salvation "is" an unconditional gift poured out of unconditional love.  But should we choose to live by "our" selfish choices, it's not conditions that come into play, it's consequences.  I can be dry, I can be wet . . .there's no condemnation in either one, but there are consequences.  If being wet is a bad thing and I choose to run outside in a down pour . . .the consequences are, I'm gonna get wet.  That's how this realm works . . .by consequences. 

Salvation is still there for us to abide in, it's not a condition that we must accept before we die so afterwards we won't go to hell . . .Salvation is an enablement of forgiving power and a release of heavenly promises for me NOW . . .if I don't give the invitation, the consequences are, I continue going through this life bound and controlled by carnality in me.

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I totally agree, I think, lol


--- Quote from: PaoloNuevo on August 24, 2011, 10:07:42 AM ---John 6:29

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

 29Jesus answered and said to them, `This is the work of God, that ye may believe in him whom He did send.'

Therefore Col. 1: 20 does not state that all WILL be saved, but all who believe and only those who hold on to the faith will be saved.

Ok Refute!   :icon_joker:

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You are right in one respect, Col 1:20 declares the ta panta/ the all will be reconciled.


To cause to be friendly again

To conciliate anew

To bring back into harmony

To cause to no longer be at variance

To bring to acquiescence/ bring to content or quiet submission

To bring to agreement

To call back into fellowship

To adjust the way you think

To adjust/ to settle

To cause to submit

To re-establish a close relationship

To settle/ to harmonize/ to make compatible

To bring together. To conciliate. To re-unite. To adjust. To resign oneself to.

Yes indeed, our God has purposed to reconcile the all/ the ta panta back into Himself!

***NOT panta minus ta (nearly all), but ta (the) joined with panta (all.)

Robertson Word Pictures

--- Quote ---ta panta (the all things, the universe) as if the universe were somehow out of harmony reminds us of the mystical passage in Romans 8:19-23. Sin somehow has put the universe out of joint. Christ will set it right. Unto himself (ei auton).  -Robertson Word Pictures
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--- Quote ---Institutional Christianity. The church is his body is addicted to the idea that for things to work out right between us and God, "we have to do our part," and if we do, then "God will do His part." That makes God dependent upon us "getting it right" before He can get on with His purpose and will. 

At the heart of our flesh's alienation from God, at the heart of our blindness and ignorance, is the desire to get credited for "holding up our part of the deal." We like the idea of grace, as long as the successful operation of grace is attributable to us "letting God" do what He wants to do.
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- John Gavazzoni-

"He is the agent and the goal of all creation. He exists before everything else, and everything else holds together in him. The Church is His Body and He is its Head.  He is its beginning for He was the first to return from the dead, which means that there is no part of the universe in which the topmost place is not His, for by God's own decision, God in all His completeness made His home in Him.  More, it was God's decision to effect through Him an act of universal reconciliation to Himself of everything in heaven and on earth, and it was through His death on the cross that God did bring the whole universe into a right relationship with Himself.

Once you were estranged from God; your minds were hostile; your conduct was evil, but now the situation has changed.  God has changed your enmity into friendship to Himself by the incarnation and death of His Son, and has thus brought you into His own presence, dedicated, innocent and blameless, provided that you remain firmly founded in the faith immoveable in the hope of the gospel which you have heard." -Dr. William Barclay-

no,it's not conditional salvation....it's the salvation of our condition of alienation from Him.

"RE".....one can't be "re'd" without having been there. :dsunny:

In my mind I see it like this:
     There is no hell, or anything for that matter, to be saved from.
     We are not saved from, but for - we are saved as one saves money - for a purpose (to be a priestly nation to God).
     As a result of salvation, we are not sent to the lake of (figurative) fire, a temporary, loving, corrective punishment designed to purify the unfaithful.
     Most of humanity will be sent to the lake of fire for purification because they were not faithful, and therefore not set aside for the special purpose.
     As for whether salvation is conditional or not, in light of the above, it definitely IS! IMO.
     I believe in universal reconciliation, not universal salvation (in the sense the I laid out above).

How can you be set aside for the purpose of being a part of the priestly nation to God if you are not faithful to the end.
What good is it if you are faithful part of your life, then abandon the Way to follow self-will?
You would have to be purified before you could be brought before the Father.
IMO the scriptures definitely teach that salvation is conditional upon being faithful and steadfast to the end.
That doesn't mean that you lose your salvation if you make mistakes.
We all make mistakes.
But there is a huge difference between being faithful yet making mistakes, and blatantly abandoning the Way to follow self-will.



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