Apologetics - Universal Reconciliation > Arguments Against Universal Salvation

A difficulty

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allsaved:
Hi. I'm a believer in universal salvation but I still have some doubts. For example, obviously, God cannot save people who never existed outside of our imagination or will. The child that a couple desperately wanted but could not have won't be saved -I guess. God could create the children we didn't have but wished for. Anyway, what about people who were born but seemed to lose their existence through a life of dedication to evil deeds and thought? Joseph Stalin was in some respects worse than Adolph Hitler. So, finally getting to my point, when Joseph S. is purged of his evil in God's merciful cleansing fire will there be anything left of Joseph Stalin to save? Will he be like a person who never really existed? I certainly don't believe in eternal torment but I do have difficulty with the question of what will be left after the evil of extremely evil people is purged.

Maybe my question can be answered only by answering the question: what exactly is a human being? Is a human being more than the sum total of his or her deeds, thoughts, beliefs and life experiences? Was there a Joseph Stalin that was invisible not only to the world but especially to Joseph himself that will somehow rise out of the ashes of the evil Joseph Stalin?

All 

squint:
If we understand that there is more going on in mankinds bodies than "just mankind" it becomes quite easy to separate J. Stalin or A. Hitler from their flesh owners who are not them.  One will be entirely saved.  One will be entirely lost.

To step onto this ground is to put away all blame and accusation to "mankind" and acknowledge that those men were slaves who were set free.  This will remain a difficult task for "all" of us because we do not and most times cannot divide, even with ourselves or each other because of the same "problem."

God continues to allow the usurpers to rise up, in the hope that we would see and divide and speak His Truth in these matters.

enjoy!

squint

97531:
Hi All, heck that used to be my greeting to all on the thread  :bigGrin:

The way I look at the Hitler and Stalin question is this.  The victims there was a very strong chance they too did not know Jesus.  The ET camp would condemn both the perpetrator and the victims to the same end.  With UR we see both coming to bow the knee and being saved, diametrically opposed to mainstream thought but which shows more mercy?

Sin remains sin no matter what the offence, the penalty is the same.

Without Jesus' sacrifice all of us would be lost as perfection in our own abilities is impossible.

As for what comes out of the LoF, nothing, what goes in is destroyed. Yet the man does not go therein, merely his sin.  That's how I understand it anyway.

Guess if God kept a scorecard, Jesus died in vain on the cross.  One need merely look at the parable of the Prodigal son to see the Father's heart.

The prodigal is 99.99% of mankind, the son that stayed behind, is the pious religious and self righteous, notice Father loves both.

Blessings

willieH:
willieH: Hi brother B... :hithere:


--- Quote from: SeekerSA on August 25, 2007, 09:11:40 PM ---Hi All, heck that used to be my greeting to all on the thread  :bigGrin:

The way I look at the Hitler and Stalin question is this.  The victims there was a very strong chance they too did not know Jesus.  The ET camp would condemn both the perpetrator and the victims to the same end.  With UR we see both coming to bow the knee and being saved, diametrically opposed to mainstream thought but which shows more mercy?

Sin remains sin no matter what the offence, the penalty is the same.

Without Jesus' sacrifice all of us would be lost as perfection in our own abilities is impossible.

As for what comes out of the LoF, nothing, what goes in is destroyed. Yet the man does not go therein, merely his sin.  That's how I understand it anyway.

Guess if God kept a scorecard, Jesus died in vain on the cross.  One need merely look at the parable of the Prodigal son to see the Father's heart.

The prodigal is 99.99% of mankind, the son that stayed behind, is the pious religious and self righteous, notice Father loves both.

Blessings

Blessings.

--- End quote ---

I agree Bernie... I see the Parable of the Prodigal Son, as being about the LOVE of the FATHER, not the mistaken positions of BOTH SONS... The Prodigal/young son made wasteful decisions, and the Elder made judgemental decisions...

But the FATHER ...LOVED... them both in spite of those mistaken positions...  :myahoo:

G  :HeartThrob: D's L :HeartThrob: VE

IS greater than ANYTHING... and is PART of ALL He does... to include, JUDGMENT...  :love4:

It's WHO He ...IS...   :bowing:    :IloveU:  :gangel:

Peace...   :Sparkletooth:

In  JESUS   ...willieH  :boogie:

Kratos:
Willie,

I am surprised that you attribute either son with the ability to make decisions that affect their lives. LOL (I couldn't resist).

I think 100% of mankind are the prodigal sons. Jesus is the only Son that never left the Father in His life to try out the world and what it had to offer. In His humanity, He may have asked about the goodness of the Father to kill the fatted calf for a returning prodigals, but that doesn't mean He was not glad to see one of us younger and more foolish sons return. And like the Father said, all that He has belongs to the elder Son who never left. I don't think that this applies to any of us no matter how we think we may have made better decisions than another prodigal.

John

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