Apologetics - Universal Reconciliation > Arguments Against Universal Salvation

A case study; Balaam.

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Peacetroll:
For all interested:

A Singular Case Study:

Is Salvation for All Human Beings?

http://emmanuel.godisjesus.net/A%20Singular%20Case%20Study.htm

May Jesus Christ bless you all in understanding and firmness in faith.

_______________________________

IOUDA

The General Epistle of Jude

13 Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus
kumata agria qalasshV epafrizonta taV eautwn aiscunaV astereV planhtai oiV o zofoV tou skotouV eiV ton aiwna tethrhtai
 
Latin Vulgate
1:13 fluctus feri maris despumantes suas confusiones sidera errantia quibus procella tenebrarum in aeternum servata est


King James Version
1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.


American Standard Version
1:13 Wild waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the blackness of darkness hath been reserved forever.


Bible in Basic English
1:13 Violent waves of the sea, streaming with their shame, wandering stars for whom the darkest night is kept in store for ever.


Darby's English Translation
1:13 raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shames; wandering stars, to whom has been reserved the gloom of darkness for eternity.


Douay Rheims
1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own confusion; wandering stars, to whom the storm of darkness is reserved for ever.


Noah Webster Bible
1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.


Weymouth New Testament
1:13 wild waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, for whom is reserved dense darkness of age-long duration.


World English Bible
1:13 wild waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the blackness of darkness has been reserved forever.

Young's Literal Translation
1:13 wild waves of a sea, foaming out their own shames; stars going astray, to whom the gloom of the darkness to the age hath been kept.


http://www.greeknewtestament.com/B65C001.htm#V13
____________________________________

Further study article:

Notes on 2nd Peter
2007 Edition
Dr. Thomas L. Constable
http://www.soniclight.com/constable/notes/pdf/2peter.pdf

Stardust75:
Funny how a person who believes in eternal torment...could say the same thing..."I believed in ET for 35 years until I came to this scriptural truth"....the reality is that everyone's beliefs can change and anyone can find a scripture to back up what they believe. The main and biggest message is that Life and Love are going to win the battle in the end...evil will never prevail..peace

Peacetroll:
I was hoping for a more scriptural discussion, in the stead of a simple emotional reply :sigh:, but at any rate I appreciate your input.


It's not that I believe in eternal torment.

I believe in eternal destruction.

When you are no longer, you are not in torment.

Eternal torment is not apart of my ideology.

You missed what David, Jude and Peter were saying....

Psalm 92:7
When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:

No eternal torment.  Just destruction, gone, out of here.

2 Peter 2:12
But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

Jude 1
12These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

 13Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Revelation 13:
 7And it was given unto him (Satan) to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations (these are people not demons).

 8And all that dwell upon the earth (people) shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 9If any man have an ear, let him hear.

Again John spoke of people, not demons or angels in the following:

Revelation 17
8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Revelation 20:
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.(this is the second death, of which those who believe in Christ can not be harmed by; eternal destruction)

To be apart of the second death is to no longer be.

There is no torment in death.  There is no aion fire in which the Love of God is casting folks, its hogwash.  There are children of the Love (vessels fitted for honor and life), and there are children of the Wrath (vessels fitted for destruction),  just as there is eternal life and there is eternal death.  Period.

I find it amazing that so many people can outright refuse to listen to the prophets and apostles.  And again I'm called a nay sayer because I believe them.

Peace to all in Christ Jesus.  You have nothing to fear.

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life,(this narrow gate leads to the Future Kingdom of God; i.e eternal life with Christ)
and few there be that find it.

Livelystone:
Hi Peacetroll

I am sure you are aware of James words that warn us not to be double minded as well as the fact that the mind is the collective reasoning of the soul sooooooo.............. would you be willing to consider that the ones who are destroyed are not individual persons but a part (the evil mind part) of the individual (s) so that who remains at th end will "be saved as by fire"? (to quote Paul)

Blessings

Doug

FineLinen:

--- Quote from: Peacetroll on September 07, 2007, 03:41:29 PM ---
It's not that I believe in eternal torment.

I believe in eternal destruction.
--- End quote ---

P.T.

Aionios olethros is a message expressed within the revelation of the Spirit in the Apostle St. Paul's writings. Evidently the object of the destruction must be eternal as well as the Author of all things.  :bigGrin: Do you know that at the end of olethros destruction there is life? 


--- Quote ---The current Evangelical Theology involves in its system belief in the deathlessness of sin, the indestructibility of error, and permanence of evil. That though there was a time in the history of the universe when sin in any shape or form did not exist, when no cry of pain or sense of guilt darkened the all-extensive bliss and holiness of creation, yet since sin has once effected an entrance into such a scene, it has come in never to go out again, indestructible, unconquerable, ineradicable, endless. Absolute happiness and sinlessness have forever vanished like the phantom of a dream. The 'eternal state' is a universe endlessly finding room for myriads of souls rolling and writhing in the burning agonies of ceaseless flame, eternally sinful, vile and morally hideous. It pictures the "final perfection" yet to be attained as having room for a vast cesspool of immoral and degraded beings, continually existing in opposition to God. -Vladimir M. Gelesnoff-
--- End quote ---

"The leaves of the Tree of Life are for the healing of the nations. And there shall no longer be a curse upon anything."

Plan B minus

The leaves of the Tree of Life are for the potential healing of the nations. And there shall continue to be considerable curse upon nearly everything.


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