willieH: Hi TB...
This topic is a bit on the "trollish" side, ...but because we at Tentmaker are a welcoming bunch, it deserves to be addressed in the name of welcome...
Btw... before I begin... Welcome to Tentmaker, TB
... God has brought you here to LEARN
... the big question is... will you?
Basically the answer to ALL your questions is -- YES
-- and in your endeavor to "trip" the truth (as was attempted by the Pharisees with CHRIST
), shall your "attempt" herein, fail...
And if you bother to completely read my answer to you, ...you will in all likelihood, become frustrated because your attempt to refute the Salvation of ALL, herein fails... but, as I have already suggested to you --- an OPPORTUNITY is given you, for GOD has led you here to LEARN
...and we here at TM shall hope you "have your EARS on"
as freely as you have "OPENED your MOUTH"...
The question I have for you, TB... is shall you LEARN
from this failure to refute "UR", or will you attempt to sidestep it?
Let us begin, shall we?
I have prepared a sort of questionaire to Universalists - Answer me please;YES
1) If God's will cannot be frustrated;
And If Eve ate of the forbidden fruit, [Gen 3:6] in the garden, it must have been God's will.
God works ALL THINGS according to the counsel of HIS OWN WILL -- Eph 1:11
2) If God's will cannot be frustrated; YES
And If Eve gave to her husband, Adam, and he did eat, also, [Gen 3:6] it must have been God's will.
(see # 1) -- also... this event is IN the WORD
, and the WORD
the event, must needs occur as noted IN the WORD
3) If God's will cannot be frustrated; YES
And if cain killed Able, [Gen 4:8] it must have been God's will.
(see #1) -- also... the "murder" of Abel is part of the WORD
which does NOT CHANGE... and so that "murder" which was PART of the THINGS NOT YET DONE -- Isaiah 46:10
-- had to occur, for the Scriptures [WORD]
-- CANNOT be BROKEN -- John 10:34
-- the WORD
has NO VARIANCE -- James 1:17
-- and is the SAME, yesterday, today and forever -- Heb 13:8
4) If God's will cannot be frustrated; YES
And if the sons of God came in unto the daughter's of men, [Gen 6:4] it must have been God's will.
(see #1) -- also... God made woman, to be an HELP, ...meet to MAN, without qualification (in every way) -- Gen 2:20
-- That "help" was not limited or described, so it stands as "help" in every way that MAN needed "help"... do you doubt the WORD
which states this?
5) If God's will cannot be frustrated; YES
And if every thought of man's heart was only evil continually,[Gen 6:5] it must have been God's will.
(see #1) -- also... God sends man into CAPTIVITY -- Jer 29:14
-- that He might DELIVER him FROM IT... as well as CONCLUDE ALL in UNBELIEF -- Rom 11:32
-- that He might have MERCY upon ALL -- are you getting any of this, TB?
6) If God's will cannot be frustrated; YES
And if the men of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were exceedingly wicked before the Lord, [Gen 13:13] it must have been God's will
(see #1) -- also... GOD created
EVIL as well as GOOD -- Isaiah 45:7
-- and the KNOWLEDGE of IT, is HIS -- Gen 3:22
-- to have KNOWLEDGE of IT, must therefore be a DIVINE thing... which MANY (likely such as yourself), think to be OPPOSING DIVINITY!
How could something which is INHERENT within
the Heart of GOD (knowledge of G & E), be OTHER than DIVINE, TB?
7) If God's will cannot be frustrated; YES
And If Saul disobeyed God, to spare the Amelekites, [1Sam 13:13-14] it must have been God's will. (Note:"...for now would the Lord have established thy kingdom upon Israel forever. But now thy kingdom shall not continue. The phrase "for now WOULD the Lord is the same as "it WAS the Lord's WILL. Saul's disobedience CHANGED the Lord's will for Saul; But it was God's will that his will be thwarted.
(see #1) -- also... (1)
use or translation of the word "forever" is INVALID, for until one can COMPLETELY define the word -- (which includes WITHOUT BEGINNING -- by explaining how something has NO BEGINNING, to include why and how that, ...IS?)... Use of the word FOREVER by any finite which does not comprehend said meaning, is therefore INVALID. (2)
GOD shall establish ISRAEL for ever, ...for "ISRAEL" are His Sons, which are without beginning or end... For ALL His SONS were WITH Him, BEFORE entering this realm -- Luke 15:11-32 -- Job 38:7
the BODY of CHRIST
, and ARE
His TEMPLE (neither of which CHANGE), and the WILL of GOD is found in them (1st CAPTIVITY, and 2nd FREEDOM which is the natural ORDER of the DIVINE -- 1 Cor 15:46
) thereby establishing the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL in His SONS, one of which was/is -- Saul (3)
-- GOD does NOT
CHANGE -- Mal 3:6
-- so "HIS WILL" for Saul cannot CHANGE, otherwise the WORD
-- Heb 13:8
-- and Mal 3:6
-- are both compromised. (4)
it is part of GOD's will in CONCLUDING UNBELIEF upon ALL (which means they shall negate in their living process, that which is commanded by Him) -- in order to have MERCY upon ALL...
In verse 14 -- it speaks of that that which YHVH
commanded was not kept
... and it is meant to be so, manifest within UNBELIEF of said doer, which did NOT "keep"...
8) If God's will cannot be frustrated; YES
And If David committed adultry with Bath-sheba, [2 Sam 11:4] it must have been god's will.
(see #1) -- also... man devises his way (as did David in this example), but GOD orders the STEPS of man -- Prov 16:9 -- Prov 20:21 -- Jer 10:23
-- will you BELIEVE what the WORD
, PLAINLY states in MULTIPLE verses, bringing its LIGHT, ...TB? Or shall you cling to your own darkened "opinions"?
9) If God's will cannot be frustrated; YES
And If, of all the many thousands who came out of Egypt, in the great exodus, only two made it to the promised land, (Joshua and Caleb)[Num 14:30,38] it must have been God's will.
(see #1) -- also... how do you continue to think that the DIVINE WILL of the ALMIGHTY can be neutralized by His own Creation? What "faith" is seen in this? The prerequisite NUMBER which eventually PHYSICALLY entered the "promised land" is not specified is it?
Where is the Prophecy noted that only TWO of the entire nation of ISRAEL should enter the promised land? Also... MOSES was not one of them... is this your conclusion as well, TB? That because MOSES did not enter PHYSICALLY, ...he therefore SHALL NEVER ENTER?
What of this, TB? ---> Rom 11:26
-- and so ...ALL ISRAEL shall be SAVED, as IS WRITTEN, there shall come out of Zion, the DELIVERER and shall turn AWAY ungodliness from JACOB...
This includes the ENTIRE nation which did NOT enter into the PROMISED land. Only those CHOSEN to ENTER into the Kingdom [promised land] IN this life, shall do so IN THIS LIFE... It does not say that those who do not enter, shall NEVER enter.
Do you believe this Scripture, TB? --John 1:29
-- behold that Lamb of God which ...TAKETH AWAY... the SIN... of the WORLD
If the SIN of THE WORLD
, ...is "taken AWAY
"... Then what remains to accuse?
You can't have your cake & eat it too bro...
10) If God's will cannot be frustrated; YES
And If Moses came down off the mount, and saw the children of israel dancing around a God they had made for themselves, [Num 32] it must have been God's will.
(see #1) -- If it is WRITTEN in the WORD
(which it IS!) ...which preceeds the event, then it WAS to BE so, ...well BEFORE it actually occured... are you getting the CLEANSING SPIRITUAL picture yet, TB? Or shall you continue wallowing in the CARNAL RELIGIOUS mud, given you? Must I continue this?
11) If God's will cannot be frustrated; YES
And If all men sin and come short of the glory of God; [Rom 3:23] it must have been God's will.
(see #1) -- also... How can one be DELIVERED from something [sin] that one, needs no deliverance from? ALL sinned, and ALL are delivered from it.
ALL are IN ADAM
[and therefore SINNERS], TB -- 1 Cor 15:22
-- as well AS
the SAME "ALL" are IN CHRIST
[and therefore DELIVERED]
12) If God's will cannot be frustrated; YES
And if the Jews always resist the Holy Spirit, [Acts 7:51] it must have been God's will.
(see #1) -- also... you only display YOURSELF and your RELIGION by noting this, bro... You must therefore NEGATE the words of PAUL in Rom 11:26
-- in order to continue to facilitate this belief.
"ALWAYS" in this context, simply means that: (1)
these have YET to be drawn to the SON and,(2)
shall remain so until their DUE TIME -- 1 Tim 2:6
-- and, (3)
are therefore YET to bow at the KNEE and CONFESS with the tongue -- Phil 2:10-11 -- John 6:44
It cannot mean "ALWAYS" in the sense you propose, for the word ALWAYS is a word such as NEVER, and FOREVER... meaning that PRIOR to being stiffnecked, these were stiffnecked...
-- for they were "ALWAYS" stiffnecked, eh?
13) If God's will cannot be frustrated; YES
And if the Jews stoned Stephen, [Acts 7:60] it must have been God's will.
(see #1) -- also... If it is WRITTEN in His WORD
(which it IS), then prior to the stoning, the scenario was SET, and could therefore NOT be avoided, otherwise the WORD
in which it is WRITTEN and which NEVER CHANGES, is therefore compromised... Are you getting it yet, TB?
14) If God's will cannot be frustrated; YES
And if evil men put you out of the synagogue, and even kill you, they will think they do God a service, [John 16:2-3] but it must have been God's will.
15) If God's will cannot be frustrated;
And if the Jews rebelled against God, and cast down his law behind their backs, and slew the prophets, and wrought great provocation, [Neh 9:26] it must have been God's will.
16) If God's will cannot be frustrated;
And if Pharoah slew all the male children of Israel, [Exo 1:16] it must have been God's will.
17) If God's will cannot be frustrated;
And if Herod slew all the children of Bethlehem, and in all the costs thereof, from two years old and under, [Mat 2:16] it must have been God's will.
18) If God's will cannot be frustrated;
And if Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit, [Acts 5:2-3] it must have been God's will.
19) If God's will cannot be frustrated;
And if Sapphira, his wife joined him in his deed, [Acts 5:2-3] it must have been God's will.
20) If God's will cannot be frustrated;
And if Satan was a liar from the beginning, [John 8:44] it must have been God's will.
21) If God's will cannot be frustrated;
And if Peter betrayed his Lord with denial, [Mat 26:75] it must have been God's will.
22) And If God's will cannot be frustrated, and I preach about a god of vengeance, why do you correct me, and say that my God is a God of hate? It must be God's will that I so teach! And for you to intervene in any way; for you to not aid me in my task, is to go against God's will; which can't be done?
23) And if God's will cannot be overturned, or thwarted, why should wives submit to their own husbands, children obey their parents, murderers be punished, and etc. ad nauseum? God's will is, after all, behind it all.
24) And if God is love, and I preach that he is a God of vengeance, what difference does it make to you, it is God's will.
25) And If God's will cannot be frustrated, he becomes directly responsible for all the sin, murder, adultry, lying, cheating, stealing, every evil thing man has ever done. there can be no "repentance, (which God wills that every man repent), because how can a man 'repent" of doing god's will
to all these, (see #1)
If you haven't gotten it by now you shall not get it...
Do you begin to see just a wee crakc in the doctrine, yet? There is plenty more where this came from. Because, after all, it is God's will that I break down this doctrine, and so I must. And for you to intervene, is to frustrate God's will.
It is GOD's WILL that you try to expose a "wee crakc"... and that you FAIL in doing so... That this FAILURE has been shown, is HIS WILL... and NOTHING can frustrate or alter the WILL
God, for He is ALMIGHTY... and you, as you continue in human arrogance, think as CLAY to dictate your "will" to the POTTER, failing to KNOW that your arrogance (marring of the clay that is you) is a product of His SHAPING of You, that you one day, shall be humbled before Him -- Jer 18:4
You have hardly done what you propose to have done, on the contrary... If something is IN the Creation of GOD, then it IS HIS CREATION... to include both the OBEDIENCE and DISOBEDIENCE to His COMMAND... including the doings of GOOD and EVIL, for these are HIS KNOWLEDGE... KNOWN by HIM! Gen 3:22
-- behold the MAN has become AS one of us... to KNOW Good and Evil...
It is therefore, DIVINE to KNOW
Evil... which are TWO sides of the very SAME KNOWLEDGE. (double edged sword)
Do I await your response
You have received it, ...now I await yours...
And please be a little more DETAILED (as you required of us) in your answer, than YOU in consolidating an entire answer, have done with others in this discussion...