Author Topic: Facing the theologian  (Read 5876 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8431
  • Gender: Female
Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2010, 07:31:00 PM »
 :cloud9: Start praising the Lord for this man's deliverance, because the devils rage because they know their time is short (in having him for a home).  :winkgrin: Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline willieH

  • Read Only
  • *
  • Posts: 2260
  • Gender: Male
Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2010, 08:20:53 PM »
willieH:  Hi Nil and Q...  :cloud9:

I'll pray for you. I know someday I'll be facing the same battle. My dad has his doctorate of theology or something similar and is a staunch Calvinist. I'm not looking forward to that conversation...

NIL -- Should you ever enter that "conversation", know that you shall have many brothers and sisters here to help you through it.

Q -- Prayers are yours my friend...  :Pray:

"Pastors" are every bit as potentially fallible as laymen, for they are SINNERS saved by GRACE, just as are laymen...

Nowhere in His WORD, did GOD designate PASTORS to be without ERROR, nor did He at any time deem them by His WORD, as COMPLETE concerning the knowledge of the DIVINE.

One who has foolishly noted your belief "heresy" has simply taken his own "belief", and used that potentially fallible measure to deduce you and your beliefs, ...that is all.  :laughing7:

...willieH  :cloud9:
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 08:41:01 PM by willieH »

Offline willieH

  • Read Only
  • *
  • Posts: 2260
  • Gender: Male
Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2010, 09:36:10 PM »
willieH: Hi Q, my friend...  :cloud9:

It seems I've been talking too loud.
Received an email today from a pastor.
He heard about my spreading of UR and the way ETers were refuted one after the other.
I know him a bit, he has a Master in Philosophy and a Master in Theology. He has written a dozen of books.

Credentials of men (college degrees) pretty much mean nothing, other than a means with which to make MONEY... No offense intended to those who have sacrificed much of their time to better themselves... but in the end, an "education" does not mean that automatically, because you have earned an "education credential" --- you are or will be successful as a part of mankind.  Many have taken such "credentials" and become serial killers or inventors of COMPUTER viruses...

A "master's" in Philosophy, means that he has mastered BS... more than anything.  :laughing7:

The flaunting of these "credentials" before you, is only an attempt to overshadow you and lessen you, ...even before any exchange of information has even taken place between you!  

Which IMO, is:

  • (1) an attempt to use "education" vs. "non-education" as the basis of knowing TRUTH, and not the dedicated pursuit of GOD irregardless of it.
  • (2) used to mask inherent insecurities, which are intimidated by your beliefs
  • (3) irrelevant in the discussion of the WORD of God, as GOD can inspire and/or withhold TRUTH, irregardless of the possession (or non-possession) of "education" credentials.

And as far this "Pastor" noting the himself as being prolific as a writer, ...Stephen King (no offense intended to him) has written MUCH more than a dozen (1200 page) books of fictional garble, ...which in the end, certainly does not make him more than YOU which might have only "written" a paragraph of TRUTH...  :laughing7:  

This "Pastor's" dozen books, can easily be filled a lot of hooey instead of TRUTH... That he has busied himself as a writer commenting on what "he" says is truth in them, ...in no way produces him as a bearer of truth, due to the quantity of writings he has produced...

A thousand books which are (potentially) filled with LIES shall never bear TRUTH, just because they are "MANY"...  :dontknow:

CHRIST commented on DOINGS and SAYINGS, of the "MANY" -- Matt 7:22-23 -- Matt 24:5  :sigh:

He sent me this morning a copy in PDF of his latest book on Universalism (only 68 pages).
He thanked me because it was because of me (I say the Lord) that he decided to write it. :mblush:

Isn't it nice to be inspirational?  :laughing7:  Praise the Lord... He is using you!  :thumbsup:

Now he'd like me to read it and answer it.
Maybe I'll begin writing something myself, if the Lord calls me to it.
Most of his work is about Origen and refuting him. I won't enter that debate because I don't care.

"Refuting" must be done by employing the WORD... and the addressing of the content of the WORD is what must occur in any "refute"...  

To address an ancient man and his "beliefs" is not addressing what the Scripture says... it is addressing the hearsay of men.  :dontknow:

For ORIGEN is quite LARGELY removed from our time, and there is no way of proving any writings about him or the details of his "beliefs", to be FACTUALLY true... so the attempt to refute an ANCIENT... is a foolish exercise in futility.

I wonder if this "Pastor" believes everything written in the Newspapers and books of today?  Or everything he hears on TV?  Liars have been available since the beginning of time... and FALSE REPORTS have OFTEN originated from them.

But there are other arguments which I know I can defend really well.
I do not have any high education myself, have received the UR revelation only 4 months ago and I'm already busy to no end but by the grace of God I can stand to any theologian because I have the Holy Spirit in me teaching me in everything.

Amen Q...  :iagree:  Stay your course, and remain invested in the guidance of the Holy Spirit... remaining open to that guidance.  Most (not all) men of education, think they have "arrived" (as "theologians")... and so in that fallible notion, they thereby "write in stone" their beliefs... and eliminate further DIVINE revelation from their experience.   :sigh:

This man is about exalting his own belief over yours, and has already resorted to NAME CALLING you and your beliefs ("heresy"), instead of actually searching for truth and being OPEN TO IT in that search, ...in part by entering in a discussion WITH YOU before such deductions (as "heresy") are declared...  :mshock:

For if one is in a search for TRUTH, one shall KNOW that he/she shall NEVER KNOW all of it... therefore, in that search, will ALWAYS have something NEW to learn, which might well compromise the PRIDEFUL "written-in-stone-deduction" of ones own "knowledge" of TRUTH... at any given time.

In his introduction he said that it was important for PASTORS to know how to refute this heresy because THEY (the pastors) have to defend the faith. :thumbdown:

He "begins" by patting himself on his own back, eh?  :LH:

If I were dealing with this guy, this would be my first brief answer to him:

Where is this written in the WORD? (that "Pastors" must "defend" the faith)   :dontknow:

This man begins by building upon a non-existent foundation, which enters into failure within its very beginning...

There is NO FOUNDATION other than CHRIST -- 1 Cor 3:11 -- and His "introduction" should have noted THAT foundation, ...not base the TRUTH on Himself as a "Pastor" which must "defend" the "faith"...  :sigh:

Why should we have to "defend" the faith?  If we have TRUTH, it needs no defense... for it SPEAKS for ITSELF.  If you are SPEAKING TRUTH, no "defense" is necessary.  It is those amidst the position of LIES that NEED to "defend" themselves...

He also say that it is theologians' calling to interpret the Scriptures and teach them to the christians. :thumbdown:

Again, ...this is written, ...WHERE... in the WORD?  Last time I looked, there is no mention of "theologians" at all, in the Scriptures...

Stealing the HS's job eh?
We're in for major misunderstanding... :laughing7:

Pray for me!

Amen! :Pray: You got it!  :friendstu:

Where are "theologians" mentioned in the WORD?  The best version of this "breed" are noted as the "Scribes" and/or "Pharisees"... which were often feeling the brunt of the TRUTH, knocking them upside  their "religious" noggins...  :pointlaugh:

This guy is full of his version (whichever one) of the "Christian religion"... and has introduced his version of this religion as that which shall REFUTE you... and poor "old" ...ORIGEN...  :laughing7:

Hey, if you like, send him my (uneducated) way... I would be more than happy to refute him...  :laugh:

...willieH  :happygrin:
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 02:16:04 AM by willieH »

Quaesitor

  • Guest
Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2010, 06:53:39 PM »
Quote
Hey, if you like, send him my (uneducated) way... I would be more than happy to refute him...


 :laughing7:

You already did because a lot of my answers were thing taught to me by the Lord using your words.
 :bigGrin:

Here is a sample of our discussion, bear with my english, I have to translate everything from french:
( Black is him, red is me)
 

 
2) If we are enslaved because of Adam and Eve'S transgression, why did God create created us with freewill ( whose only them have had according to you) He would have saved the suffering to mankind and arrived to the same result.

I do not believe that Adam and Eve had a freewill.
I already explained to you in a previous email that God's plan has always been to teach His image-bearing creatures the knowledge of Good and Evil (Isaiah 26:9). One cannot exist without the other. God obviously knows god and evil but created man didn't knew it or else God wouldn't have put in the garden a tree possessing that knowledge.
I do not believe there is freewill because the only TRUE will is that of in sort that the man who is truly free does not do HIS will but the will of God. Like Jesus who said that He never did of speak anything from Himself. Our will is always a lie and leads to death. That is what is the slavery in which men are caught.


 
3) How do you explain James 1:13: " Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man. If God decided everything, isn't it God who tempt and desire evil?
 
James explain it himself, it is our own lust which pushes us to commiting evil. In the same example I've given you sooner, in which a kid is hit by a car after having been told by his father not to go the other side of the road. That kid cannot accuse his father of having pushed him in front of the car, he himself chose to disobey the command (but not by freedom, by ignorance of the TRUE consequence : death.
When God uses Babylon to chasten Israel, is God the one who perced children with swords or raped the women?
Why is that? We clearly read that it IS god who is chastening Israel, He will even then chasten Babylon because they said it was by their own POWER that they conquered the land while God said it was HIM who have given them that power.



Ok that's a small sample but it is after these answers and 3 more answered questions that he sidestepped the whole conversation and - Took a Stand - (theses are his own words) to the truth revealed by the apostolic tradition. He said I was a pneumatic and that he doesn't believe a bit of what I say.

BTW I never had even ONE of myquestions answered, the only answer I ever get was that he didn't want to enter these debates before we would agree on HIS terms of debate, which I refused.

Offline Ross

  • Est
  • *
  • Posts: 214
  • Gender: Male
  • Gal2;20
Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2010, 11:55:15 AM »
Hi;
Well said, willieH about refuting with the truth. Christ did that when satan tried to lure Him into worshipping the ruler of this earth. Christ just stated the truth.
Also well said Q about how this man never answering your questions, that seems to be because there is no truth in him.
That seems to be the difference between flesh and spirit talked about in Galations. They are basically opposite to each other. That could be depressing if it were not for the magnitude of what Christ has done for us to make us the new creation in Him with the true knowledge of good and evil. Interesting that Adam and Eve did not eat of the tree of life after eating of the tree of knowledge. Christ is that tree of life and the only source of the life in the age to come. He had to die first to become the first born of the next stage of development in the master plan of life and the true source of food and drink[ John 6;55 " For my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink; he that feeds upon My flesh and drinks my blood lives in Me and I in him> Just as the living Father sent Me, and I live by reason of the Father, also he that feed on Me even he shall live by reason of Me."]
So if any one does not say that Christ came in the flesh and actually died for us, then they do not yet know the truth. I say not yet because they will know the truth at some stage of the proceedings.

 
Fellow brother in Christ

Offline reFORMer

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 1943
  • Gender: Male
  • Psalm 133
Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2010, 05:07:40 PM »
Interesting that Adam and Eve did not eat of the tree of life after eating of the tree of knowledge. Christ is that tree of life and the only source of the life in the age to come. He had to die first to become the first born of the next stage of development in the master plan of life and the true source of food and drink[ John 6;55 " For my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink; he that feeds upon My flesh and drinks my blood lives in Me and I in him> Just as the living Father sent Me, and I live by reason of the Father, also he that feed on Me even he shall live by reason of Me."]
So if any one does not say that Christ came in the flesh and actually died for us, then they do not yet know the truth. I say not yet because they will know the truth at some stage of the proceedings.
There are those that live without eating.  "Inedia" is what it is called.  It seems some kind of power or sign.  The Roman church rigorously researches certain of these claims that come before them. One woman in Europe has so lived for over 35 years.  What they're interested in are those that only eat the communion bread, wafer, the Eucharist, whatever they call it.  They go to mass, receiving the Eucharist every day with nothing else to sustain them.  Such persons are particularly given over to prayer.  Jesus', "I have bread ye know not of," is one passage where it may be alluded to, along with John 6:55 quoted above.  I primarily understand "eating His fesh" to be doing the will of the Father which consumes our flesh with fire (measured in calories) at about 98.6.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 05:15:09 PM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8431
  • Gender: Female
Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2010, 03:54:34 AM »
 :cloud9: I know for a fact, you can literally draw life from the Spirit to empower your body, instead of from food. Blessings.....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Beloved Servant

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 4290
  • David's sling
Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2010, 04:00:45 AM »

HalleluJah 

Offline peacemaker

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1043
Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2010, 05:30:48 AM »
:cloud9: I know for a fact, you can literally draw life from the Spirit to empower your body, instead of from food. Blessings.....

Are you on a diet, Cardinal?  :laughing7:

Some like their bread plain, others want it buttered; and yet there are those who prefer to have it sugar coated for taste.
However, we all love the bread of life!

Amen, Sister.

(P.S. - I need glasses, could have sworn I hit the quote button. But all that is there, is a purple box with a black, dotted line adjacent to the bottom?)  :mshock:

Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8431
  • Gender: Female
Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2010, 06:08:44 PM »
 :cloud9: As a matter of fact..... :winkgrin: but I was referring to long fasts..... :happygrin:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline thinktank

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2672
Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2010, 02:34:29 AM »
:cloud9: As a matter of fact..... :winkgrin: but I was referring to long fasts..... :happygrin:

Do you think eating spiritual bread or the euchchrist counts as a fast?

Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8431
  • Gender: Female
Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2010, 06:44:14 AM »
 :cloud9: Yes. I've done both. Although food was being discussed, a fast is anything the Lord moves on your heart to lay down, either temporarily or permanently. Some examples: TV, sodas, unnecessary shopping, unnecessary talking, discussion boards  :mshock: and so forth. He had a friend of mine "fast" NOT EATING, because she hated to eat. It's all about training us in obedience, not the sacrifice.

When I first came to the Lord, He gave me wisdom on what the "no pants, no make-up" deal was with the churches, and in so doing released me of the obligation to do it. Two weeks later, he made me go with a skirt on and no make-up, EVEN THOUGH I knew it was not required of me according to the TRUE interpretation of the Word as shown me by the Spirit revelation. He turned the tables on me, to test my obedience in light of the fact I knew it was not required for "righteousness". So it was as a "fast" to abstain from those things, as ordered by the Lord. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Beloved Servant

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 4290
  • David's sling
Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2010, 06:52:42 AM »
He is tightening the rope.

Now, I just go and do as led without any thought of my own.







Offline Ross

  • Est
  • *
  • Posts: 214
  • Gender: Male
  • Gal2;20
Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2010, 10:26:36 AM »
Hi;
My dietician knows more than those who do that for a living. :icon_flower:
We are told not to worry about what to eat or what to wear...
Fellow brother in Christ