Author Topic: Facing the theologian  (Read 5649 times)

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Quaesitor

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Facing the theologian
« on: October 07, 2010, 01:17:51 AM »
It seems I've been talking too loud.
Received an email today from a pastor.
He heard about my spreading of UR and the way ETers were refuted one after the other.
I know him a bit, he has a Master in Philosophy and a Master in Theology. He has written a dozen of books.
He sent me this morning a copy in PDF of his latest book on Universalism (only 68 pages).
He thanked me because it was because of me (I say the Lord) that he decided to write it.
 :mblush:
Now he'd like me to read it and answer it.
Maybe I'll begin writing something myself, if the Lord calls me to it.
Most of his work is about Origen and refuting him. I won't enter that debate because I don't care.
But there are other arguments which I know I can defend really well.
I do not have any high education myself, have received the UR revelation only 4 months ago and I'm already busy to no end but by the grace of God I can stand to any theologian because I have the Holy Spirit in me teaching me in everything.

In his introduction he said that it was important for PASTORS to know how to refute this heresy because THEY(the pastors) have to defend the faith. :thumbdown:
He also say that it is theologians' calling to interpret the Scriptures and teach them to the christians. :thumbdown:
Stealing the HS's job eh?
We're in for major misunderstanding... :laughing7:

Pray for me!

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2010, 03:06:13 AM »
 :cloud9: Take no thought of what you shall say, for the HG shall give you what you should speak. It really does work. He sent me to a pastor once with a word that I knew he wasn't going to like and I knew he would have me for breakfast over it.

I asked the Lord to give me something that he had never heard preached before as a sign to him that I was hearing the Lord. He did. The pastor admitted he had never heard it preached anywhere before, but STILL didn't receive the word I gave him or the warning for disobedience that came with it. A few weeks later he was removed from the pulpit and disbarred from his denomination (really a blessing in disguise). God will have His way.

Lifting you up for strength and wisdom......Blessings.....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Quaesitor

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2010, 03:39:57 AM »
It is like that, I've been studying UR for only 4 months, not enough to face these opponents but yet in every discussions I hear myself answering things I didn't even heard before, answering questions or refuting interpretations I didn't knew existed.
Now I have to stay in that rest and let God do it or else it won't work.

Been reading his aion/olam exposition and he worked a lot on it, too bad for him most of his conclusions are based on bad premises (Jesus reigning forever, earth enduring forever, etc.)

After reading about a fourth of his book I realize that everywhere he says that it can't be that way because blah blah blah, it can be said the other side. At the end it's all about perspectives.

Thank you for the prayers Card. :bigGrin:

Offline Lefein

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2010, 04:19:41 AM »
I will intercede for you, for this is a mighty calling!  Like Esther you where born for a time such as this, and God himself (The Holy Spirit) who dwells inside the very temple of clay he built in the quarry of your mother's womb is more than a match for any man on the face of this earth...Past, Present, or yet in the ages to come.  :thumbsup:

And remember, God is sovereign, God is Love, God is Life, God is Truth, God defeated, and will defeat Death, God cannot lie, God will do his will, and his will is that all mankind be saved. ^^

Everyone will stand before the judgement seat of God and give their account...But behold!  The pure in heart shall see God!

(God cannot like because what ever God speaks becomes, or is Reality, lies are that which is not reality  :thumbsup: something I wrote an article on I think elsewhere, and may share here; when God gave me this revelation I was like "wow!")
« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 04:25:32 AM by Lefein »
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Nil Recurring

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2010, 07:39:35 AM »
I'll pray for you. I know someday I'll be facing the same battle. My dad has his doctorate of theology or something similar and is a staunch Calvinist. I'm not looking forward to that conversation...

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2010, 09:16:10 AM »
Grace and peace be multiplied unto you in the name of God our Father and Jesus our Lord!
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline jabcat

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2010, 10:21:21 AM »
I'll pray for you. I know someday I'll be facing the same battle. My dad has his doctorate of theology or something similar and is a staunch Calvinist. I'm not looking forward to that conversation...

We're told to declare (I Tim. 4:11)

He may see it, or maybe not - at this time;

"You are permitted to understand the secrets of the Kingdom of God. But I use parables to teach the others so that the Scriptures might be fulfilled: 'When they look, they won't really see. When they hear, they won't understand.'  Luke 8:10

Blessings, James.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2010, 04:42:15 PM »
I'll pray for you. I know someday I'll be facing the same battle. My dad has his doctorate of theology or something similar and is a staunch Calvinist. I'm not looking forward to that conversation...

We're told to declare (I Tim. 4:11)

He may see it, or maybe not - at this time;

"You are permitted to understand the secrets of the Kingdom of God. But I use parables to teach the others so that the Scriptures might be fulfilled: 'When they look, they won't really see. When they hear, they won't understand.'  Luke 8:10

Blessings, James.


Amen. We are witnesses. God is the facilitator. The Spirit gives the revelation (or not) according to the will of God. Prayer is often the determining factor, because it moves the Holy Spirit. No matter how "studied up" we are, if the Spirit doesn't work with us we are less likely to succeed.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Quaesitor

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2010, 03:27:16 AM »
So, the discussion has ended, we agreed to disagree before even starting to discuss.
His point is that everything must be based on the "analogy of faith" and on the church fathers.
Since only theologians have that kind of information, "ordinary christians" are at their mercy.
He dismissed the teaching of the Spirit and said only the apostles had that.
After reading this sort of things, I felt like we were talking two completely different languages and that communication was absolutely impossible.

He wants me to prove that MOST church fathers taught UR and that it is in agreement with the rest of HIS faith which looks more like intellectual understanding than spiritual convictions.

He nearly told me that NO scriptures were necessary.

Bah
God bless him. (that was hard to write... :happygrin:)

Now I have to ask the Lord why I'm feeling so depressed about it. :sigh:

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2010, 04:09:09 AM »



Think about it Who led you here to Tentmaker?

That same Spirit will lead him to the Truth when it is His time.

Remember what the Father says: "Not by might, not by power but by My Spirit."


Offline thinktank

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2010, 04:15:23 AM »
So, the discussion has ended, we agreed to disagree before even starting to discuss.
His point is that everything must be based on the "analogy of faith" and on the church fathers.
Since only theologians have that kind of information, "ordinary christians" are at their mercy.
He dismissed the teaching of the Spirit and said only the apostles had that.
After reading this sort of things, I felt like we were talking two completely different languages and that communication was absolutely impossible.

He wants me to prove that MOST church fathers taught UR and that it is in agreement with the rest of HIS faith which looks more like intellectual understanding than spiritual convictions.

He nearly told me that NO scriptures were necessary.

Bah
God bless him. (that was hard to write... :happygrin:)

Now I have to ask the Lord why I'm feeling so depressed about it. :sigh:

Don't feel bad, the guy was not interested in truth, he was more interested in winning a debate. Evident by the fact that he dissmises the very spirit of truth.

You probably feel bad because you thought he was a potential person to witness to and grow fruit in, but ended up being a dead tree that had no potential.

Be blessed in Jesus name.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2010, 04:19:53 AM »


 but ended up being a dead tree that had no potential.


interesting.

Offline thinktank

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2010, 06:41:48 AM »


 but ended up being a dead tree that had no potential.


Noticed you changed your pic, from a candle that lights a room to the lion of the tribe of judah, who baptizes with holy fire.

interesting.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2010, 07:04:48 AM »


wow!

I didn't even realize that, thanks!

FROM THE CANDLESTICK TO THE THRONE

Offline Lefein

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2010, 07:10:34 AM »
Is it a comfy throne? :D
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2010, 07:22:45 AM »



Why do you ask?

Offline Lefein

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2010, 07:32:06 AM »
No reason >_>

*hides a third of my servants*
« Last Edit: October 10, 2010, 08:00:38 AM by Lefein »
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2010, 08:06:08 AM »
...just not following you, Lefein.

???

Offline Lefein

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2010, 08:45:29 AM »
I was planning on usurping it.  But that's okay.
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2010, 03:45:17 PM »



Your plan is a little late.
Adam and his friends already did that.
Now, things are quickly going in the other direction.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2010, 05:12:40 PM »
 :cloud9: Hey, I just noticed your lion, too.  :thumbsup: I was used to looking for the candle gif......
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2010, 06:44:31 PM »
Diggin' the lion dude. :yes:
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Quaesitor

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2010, 04:06:08 AM »
Ok, after the Lord had showned me that my heart was in convincing this man by the power of reason and not by defending my faith with love and calmness, the theologian suprised me by coming back with a lighter touch and just tried to explain my views and to clarify what he didn't understand.

I proceeded to do just that and in the next email, knowing more what I believe, he asked questions and tried to refute what I said. To which I answered without trouble and I proceeded with asking questions myself (which questions I had already asked 3 times without any answers).

And the next email was a huge surprise, he explosed with rage, letting the - other gospel = sure hell for you phrase and a lot of low insult and subtile discrediting.
I have yet to close my mouth. :laughing7:

Oh well, I think it's really over now to my own pleasure, it was getting ridiculous.
Meanwhile his book agaisnt universalism is spreading like the plague, every friends and brother/sisters to who I speak are reading it.

But on a greater note, I had 4 brothers and sisters come pass the weekend at home (they are from the city I used to live) and at least 3 of them were deeply touched by the salvation of all and especially one sister who the Lord used my words to bring her to Him long ago and since her salvation she was deeply happy but yet deeply sadened by her loved ones going in hell. When she heard the true Gospel, she litterally burtsed in tears of joy and I think we all cried, now it is a good new!

Offline Lefein

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2010, 04:28:51 AM »
God has a positive sense of irony...

In Jesus name, I ask that this book the pastor has written against Universalism, would spark in the heart of their readers a yearning to "find out just what all the hub-bub is about concerning all of this "universalism" stuff that this pastor is so violent against".

I ask that it would prompt them to study, and to see The Truth!  I ask that you would use this book which is spreading like a plague, to cause people to seek Universalism in equal and greater measure!

Since the book is spreading like a plague, so I ask Lord, that you would work through this plague to spread Universal Reconciliation...Piggy back your glory on this evil, and supersede it with your love!

In Jesus' name I pray, Amen.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2010, 04:34:13 AM by Lefein »
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Facing the theologian
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2010, 07:01:27 AM »
amen
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com